I used to read through history and so frequently I would wonder things like “how did these serfs just put up with this for so long?”
I no longer wonder these things.
there’s also the matter that most of the time, you didn’t have to deal with noble strangers with horses expecting your loyalty (often, not the same nobles and horses as the last ones to come around). There may be the local lord but he had good cause to keep things consistent and open up the grain reserves whenever the winter was bad and crops failed.
But the keen thing that changed in the 20th century is we went from a desperate labor shortage to a labor surplus. There was just tons to do and no giant machines with which to do them. Death was right around the corner: A boar attack here, a bad influenza there, any kind of infection (no antibiotics), so people were dropping dead often enough that every last idiot, hunchback and bastard daughter were celebrated as a strong back that could churn butter or assemble barrels or pitch hay.
In fact, society was so fraught that clergy who knew the deal would look the other way when peasants were rutting like bunnies out of wedlock in springtime. (Stories are told and songs are sung of parish priests who were a bit strict on the sins, and how they had a tendency toward morbid mishap.)
We have crusades and territorial disbutes to thank for higher ranks getting into common business. The Third Crusade (King Richard v. Salah ad-Din) squeezed the peasants hard in England. Then Richard went cooky, disguised himself as a merchant, and was seized for ransom, and a king’s ransom was a lot. So the peasants were squeezed so hard it hurt the earls, and John of England (last of his name to this very day) was already a Trumpian / Neroesque asshole, and the economy was already tanked when Richard died in 1199, and at that point enough people were pissed off at unilateral monarchy they made John sign the Magna Carta at swordpoint. Several times.
And that was the beginning of the end of monarchy.
I was thinking something similar in regards to the amount of time it takes. If dystopia and dictatorship is coming to the “free world” the dictators have learned to land that plane gently. It’s nuts that things haven’t properly broken completely. We just keep putting up with small adjustments. I don’t think the serfs would have gone from, say, 2008 to 2025 without some sort of uproar or downright rebellion. Then again. Not my area of expertise.
I spend a lot of money of booze and weed for this reason.
Same, dude. Same.
The word hypernormalisation was coined by Alexei Yurchak a professor of anthropology who was born in Leningrad. He introduced the word which describes paradoxes of life during the 1970s and 1980s in the USSR. He says everyone in the Soviet Union knew the system was failing, but no one could imagine any alternative to the status quo and politicians and citizens alike were resigned to maintaining the pretense of a functioning society. Over time, the mass delusion became a self-fulfilling prophecy with everyone accepting it as the new norm rather than pretend.
“We should boycott Amazon for firing all their workers in my province.”
“Why bother, boycotts do nothing.”
How is that the default response and not “FUCK THIS COMPANY”
…and instead of joining the boycott, proceeds to do nothing.
SO much learned helplessness in the “geeks” around me. They’ve given up on privacy, ownership, seemingly democracy, certainly peace for Palestine. Never been to a protest, or even considered boycotting. I’m surprised they even bother voting (centrist ofc).
Sorry I realise I’m being a doomer about the doomers. It’s not all like that, and they can be stirred to passion sometimes.
To me, it’s only because they use their services and the concept of inconveniencing themselves is absurd. “It didn’t happen in MY province, and Prime delivery is next day! I’m sure they’ll all find better jobs.”
They work a job and are probably underpaid, so instead of thinking about someone else, especially when that other person makes more than they do, they view it as the other person just isn’t “surviving” as hard as they are… maybe? There’s tons of possibilities, but that’s my anecdotal take on it.
I felt this feeling as we were finding out we invaded Iraq under false pretenses to make money for blackrock. We never did anything. I figured people would change but after voting in same clown after the shitshow he did last time……
The average American reads at an 8th grade level, with slightly more than half reading at a 6th grade level.
We have been cognitively neutered, by design.
Didn’t that actually happen (not the Blackrock part)? I thought it came out in a Congressional hearing that there was oil which motivated the whole thing. The U.S. went in to find WMDs but after many years could not find evidence of any.
It was just because W wanted to finish what his dad started and remove Saddam. There was no exit plan or grand strategy.
That doesn’t necessarily mean Saddam wasn’t bad, but why not let the citizens of Iraq decide that?
Norman Schwarzkopf said if we take him out worse people would fill in and he was right
As a dictator he weaponized his ethnic minority to violently oppress the majority. The people in Iraq had no say.
As though Americans are in any position to judge.
I guess to call out Blackrock exclusivity is incorrect as they were just security in Iraq. My point was using private contractors and then allowing firms to profit. This government to private is now infecting everything.
2007, an internal Department of Defense census on the industry found almost 160,000 private contractors were employed in Iraq (roughly equal to the total U.S. troops at the time, even after the troop “surge”). Yet even this figure was a conservative estimate, since a number of the biggest companies, as well as any firms employed by the State Department or other agencies or NGOs, were not included in the census
I was 12 when the U.S. went into Iraq. I remember watching cable news the moment that began. I think I was too young to understand. Why was Blackrock their?
It was the first time that (as I remember) private firms were used for security in a foreign war. They ended up shooting a bunch of civilians when they came under fire. I read that it started in Afghanistan but it was the start of private firms fighting our wars. It made war profitable by getting rid of only being a manufacturer for weapons. It’s our biggest industry and totally hidden
When has it ever been any better? There’s plenty we can say about class exploitation, racism, lack of healthcare for the poor, low wages, war… but was any part of that better in any other era of history? You could make a tenuous argument that some of these were marginally better a decade or three ago, but in the grand schemes of things, the only thing that’s gotten worse during our history is environmental devastation. And even on that score, we are rookies. The cyanobacteria fucked this ball of slime UP long before it was cool.
I’m not saying everything’s great. I’m saying it’s only been worse as you look back.
The nineties were good. Less racism, less pandemics, no social media to make the world collectively dumber. Just silly clothes and hair we had to deal with.
Way worse homophobia, though.
deleted by creator
I sometimes wonder if I’ll ever be inspired again. Or feel motivated.
Seeing a convict run amok and President really fucks with your mental health.
Seeing the blatantly corrupt and evil people just makes it hard to care about anything anymore.
I sometimes just stare in the dark night wondering why im still here when other people who wanted to do things are not here anymore.
Its cyclical, there is no end or beginning just a chain of actions. Might not be the fun part od the circle but it goes around again, we will see better days.
The eternal pendulum of nihilism and existentialism.
Nihilism, there is no meaning. Existential, there is no meaning, so find meaning.
If you can, find a reason. Find that meaning. And, if nothing else, live and love out of spite. One day, you’ll wake up to the obituaries (naturally caused; no martyrs here please) of the awful people. And you’ll never have to think on them again, ideally.
William Gibson wrote: The future has arrived, it’s just not evenly distributed.
Yeah I’ve been feeling bizarre as the US falls into fascism and ill just be at work like any other day
It’s nearly dissociative. It’s utterly unreal.
It requires a strong will, lots of courage, and a strong stomach to face and accept the state of the world. I’m still working on all that, but I feel like I’m getting closer and closer by the day.
I can face it. I will not accept it.
I didn’t mean provide consent or bow down — most certainly not. I just meant mentally coming to terms with reality and accepting what needs to be changed.
Aah, ok. We’re on the same page.
Alexei Yurchak who was a professor of anthropology coined a term for this: Hypernormalisation.
From Wikipedia: “He introduced the word in his book ‘Everything Was Forever, Until It Was No More: The Last Soviet Generation’, which describes paradoxes of Soviet life during the 1970s and 1980s. He says everyone in the Soviet Union knew the system was failing, but no one could imagine any alternative to the status quo, and politicians and citizens alike were resigned to maintaining the pretense of a functioning society. Over time, the mass delusion became a self-fulfilling prophecy, with everyone accepting it as the new norm rather than pretend.”
This is where I feel democratic leadership is at right now. The fact no one is stepping up, rallying a cause, spearheading any sort of movement including “let’s protect what we’ve already got” just absolutely no leadership from the left seems like they just can’t fathom reality being anything other than what it is right now. I’ve been incredibly disappointed by the disappearing act both Harris and Walz have pulled and consider them failures due to this lack of leadership when we need it most, they ran for leadership of the opposition party but clearly have zero interest in actually leading in any form beyond titles/formally and this explains why, although does not excuse their behavior
Even when things aren’t all fascist, we’re still disposable wage slaves for the elite. And somehow that’s what we’re supposed to be working to maintain.
I think we have to start respecting ourselves, respecting others, and teaching those concepts to people who are receptive. To me, it seems like the only way to break the cycle called slavery.
They can dress slavery up with benefits all they want, but they don’t even care to anymore. Everybody knows it’s a raw deal and they are trying to scare us into thinking we have no power.
Let’s not be stuck in fear and hate, in subservience and denigration, and be sovereign and resolute in the change we want to see in the world.
I don’t need an external authority to tell me what I should believe and hope for. I don’t need somebody to curb my expectations and tell me change is impossible, that we actually need to compromise for no real reason, that it is too “costly”, or that it will take an extremely long time. I don’t want to be told ANY of that when change is possible — these people simply gave up before they even started. No more am I going to be gaslit, and I hope others feel similarly.
If you can’t imagine a world where comprehensive solutions manifest imminently to ease suffering, you probably aren’t fit for leadership. We need change now, this is absolute insanity. FUCK the perceived costs — it’s infinitely more costly to continue the current state of affairs while many, many countless individuals suffer and our precious and irreplaceable planet goes up in flames.
It’s that or go full on regular slave. Even if we maintain the old status quo, we’re still losing.
There is no use in getting overwhelmed. I am merely getting more practiced in drinking larger and larger amounts of whiskey and smoking larger and larger amounts of cannabis to deal with it.
We all have a process
And hopefully, at least most of us will survive.
If not, for all of you fascists: I have a plan to destroy all of you that involves an enormous amount of pee. Like, so much, you can’t fucking imagine. An absolute cavalcade of pee.
Don’t try me
#PeeStrong
The rest of us, in the civilised world, watch on from behind our fingers in horror and bewilderment
America is a classic case of the elephant chained to a small stake as a baby
The learnt helplessness of the population is nuts
Chained to a small stake, yes. But there’s also the greater threat of being shot and told it was your fault if the stake comes out.
Yeah, it seems to me, school is really just a process that mostly exists to teach you to adhere to nonsensical processes. At least that was largely how it was in my case.
People are told to sit and listen for the first 18 years of their life, and then they’re told to stand up and do something the rest of their lifes.
People are educated to not think for themselves, feel for themselves, and make life experiences. Everything is regulated. Parents have too much control. It takes a village to raise a child, yet we’ve normalized the “core-family”-household. What a perversion of nature.
School starts in 'Murica with the worship of the flag
It’s indoctrination at its finest
Bold of you to assume this post is limited to American neo-fascism. It absolutely resonated with me here in Germany. This “civilized world” you speak of - is it here in the room with us right now?
I never got the insistence of people that “stop immigration” would be a far-right thought.
Being against immigration can have lots of reasons, primarily economical reasons. It objectively (I’d say) is a good thing that the birth rate is dropping, because that improves the socio-economic position of the people. I.e., it reduces the supply in workforce, which increases prices for labor (a.k.a. wages). And it also means that more resources are available per person, which reduces the cost of living.
Yet, many people (especially the “greens”) seem to argue that we need more workers to fulfill the demands of our economy, which, frankly, is just bullshit and plainly wrong. … and that assumed need for more workers is then used as a justification to import people, as if they were a shippable product. It’s disgusting, really. First we start a war in the middle east; then we move the people to a foreign country. It’s a double shame.
how about we fucking do neither.
Oh, Germany is a mess. Hungary is a disaster, Turkyie is fucked,
There are lots of problems
I’m grateful to live in Australia
Turkiye is fucked
Not quite - or at least they have the best chance at recovery if (and that’s a big if) they can oust Erdoğan and his cronies. If they manage that, Turkiye would soon be more democratic than most of the EU in its present state.
Yep
Erdoğan is poison, and has been for so damned long
It’s a beautiful country with such potential
After the election, I gave myself permission to become an alcoholic if I wanted. I don’t see a great future ahead.
Don’t do it. It’s not worth it. It makes you bitter more often than numb. It’s better for your mental health to channel your frustrations into something useful. Get involved somehow, make yourself useful for others. Collaborate with some direct aid org. Start making content on the internet where you speak your mind and talk about how you see the world, you might end up turning a few people.
The thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of the alienation we feel is because most paid work doesn’t really touch people. It’s either too abstract (office work that only helps your company make money by servicing other companies so that they can make money) or direct servicing of disgruntled customers in a hurry (most customer facing work, like barista, cashier, call center, etc.). Really there’s few jobs where you feel like you do something worthwhile, so try to get involved in something for your soul, something that contributes to directly building the world you want to build.
I appreciate it. Even though my drinking has increased, I’ve actually become a community organizer in my city and it’s been therapeutic for me to hear people thanking us for organizing events where we build community and give people an outlet for their frustrations with the administration.
I’m also living my life at this point with as much substance as I can have. I have health issues and when they roll back ACA protections, I’m really screwed. So I figured if I don’t have the luxury to grow old, I will do what I can for my community for the greater good.
You seem like a really good person. Have a great day.
The future is still not written. There’s no reason to give up in advance as we really don’t know how things will shake out, there’s so much stuff happening. Make sure to make connections you can fall back on for rainy days. Hang in there, friend.
Appreciate the kind words, you seem like a good person too.
Bro, I have just seen so much bad shit happen for months and all my girlfriend will say is, “Something’s gonna happen, something is coming, I’m believing and praying and everything is gonna work out and be okay” and inside, I’m screaming like Atreus from God of War (2016), “HOW DO YOU KNOW?!”
Watch she doesn’t fall victim to a cult or something with that mindset.
The weird thing is it’s kind of more bizarre than a dystopian society. In dystopia, you know resources are scarce and that you have to defend yourself with violence. But in this actual dystopia, I can still get up and go play disc golf, pretty much without incident. There could come a day when I’m pulled over by some Nazi cop who decides to make an example of me, which face it, has been the case for some time now, but until then for little things like that, it’s pretty much business as usual despite the plummet into fascism. Very weird.
Scarcity is artificial with our level of technology and our ingenuity.
It’s a myth, we are able to produce more than enough even with many countless individuals in dire straits maintaining the world’s economy/production. We produce so much that we can afford to waste incredible amounts of food and other goods without batting an eye.
What if the individuals slaving were given the ingredients to be happy and healthy, with their human rights and needs respected?
Personally, I believe the world would get even more productive, things would start making sense, people wouldn’t have to work so hard, we’d see forward movement in our societies, and without a doubt we’d see incredible advancements.
I refuse to believe that everybody would laze about, leave the “hard” jobs unattended, and let the world rot.
If we can work this hard while we are forced to survive, forced to live in lack while the landfills pile up to the sky — there’s no way we wouldn’t be incredibly more efficient if people could take a second to breathe and fill their cup. If everybody could take a second and look around and see where things could be even better, where they can make a difference, everything would surely very quickly improve.
There’s no way to convince me that “peak productivity” is everybody emptying their cup and breaking the glass to pay debts and to afford necessities.
Did you mean to respond to me because I don’t see how it relates? I assume you are responding to the thread.
I agree with you to a point. I mean, think of how wonderful a world it could be if there was any kind of equity. People making sure everyone is fed, no theft, no slavery, etc. It’s almost traumatizing to realize we have the capacity to make this a reality, but don’t.
I’ve come to the conclusion this is just fantasy. It’s human nature to destroy itself. People have a long history of hating people not like them. Just when I think we’re making progress along comes racism again.
I don’t believe this will ever change. It’s a true shame.
You mentioned scarcity, so I chimed in. I am going to stand resolute because I don’t want to see humanity devolve. I am going to stand in my power and encourage everybody I interact with to do the same. Doesn’t mean they have to agree or listen.
For my friends here in the US, the current state of affairs cannot continue or we will lose all of our rights and very quickly this leadership will drive us off the cliff while they play chicken.
Thanks for responding, sorry that it wasn’t entirely relevant.
I’ve already lost hope, but good luck with that.
Scarcity is artificial with our level of technology and our ingenuity.
Not for much longer. Global fresh water demand will outstrip supply by 40% by 2030 and 90% of global top soil and arable land is at risk of depletion by 2050.
Enjoy the last of the abundance. Things are going to start getting really bad very soon.
I don’t think we’re doomed. I think the solarpunk movement has plenty of valid ideas to address these problems.
I am new to the movement, but it’s definitely given me some optimism — I believe that we have the means to deal with any crisis with our technology, evolving understanding of the world, and ingenuity.
I am learning things every day and exploring new ideas fairly often. I don’t think I am the best ambassador yet (not even close), so forgive me if I am off-base or not 100% dialed in.
Agriculture is in dire need of reform and revolution. It’s unsustainable — we could more intelligently feed the world by blending agriculture with nature (e.g. by discontinuing monocropping and scaling ideas garnished from food forests) and we can explore scaling up vertical farming. We can power this by renewables and utilize wasterwater recirculation.
We can regulate industrial water usage. We can reduce animal agriculture and grow meat in labs. We can expand upon desalination technology (finding a way to derive scalable benefit from the brine and repurpose the salt) and explore other water capture technologies that all account for potential ecosystem disruption. We can make landscapes that retain water, and reforest and reduce desertification where appropriate (e.g. with ideas from the permaculture movement). We can make water pipelines and more sensibly use groundwater, respecting replenishment rates.
We can explore creating scalable synthetic terra preta and we can explore other promising ideas like this reddit thread proposes.
Solar panels are cheap to manufacture, and if we can finish the proton battery technology, we can build scalable, cheap energy storage and power scalable vertical farms — and more broadly power our societies.
I am sure for whatever crisis you can think of, there is valuable discussion in the solarpunk community to explore more nuanced, comprehensive, and educated viewpoints than my own.
You’re valid in your perspective, but I don’t think I am throwing my hands up just yet. There are billions of people who can figure this out if we actually take the initiative as a global society.
You are right that we COULD do many of these things. But we won’t. We live in a society of people who deny there is even a problem. Anyone who knows it’s either powerless or looking to profit.
Humans work on crisis management. We ignore a problem until it bites us in the face. Then we band together and defeat it. Unfortunately, when a problem exists that can’t be corrected by the time it bites us, no banding together will stop it.
Taking back our power is necessary and urgent, especially here in the US. Apathy is the recipe for our suffering. We can raise awareness so the problems we face don’t bite us. Your disbelief is valid, but I am holding out hope that things will quickly start making sense.
Man, I hope you’re right.
Infinite growth on a finite world is fundamentally unsustainable. We are blasting through tipping points and heat records daily now and the world is still fundamentally reliant on fossil fuels, despite how fast ‘renewable resources’ are developing.
Late stage capitalism, fascism, resource depletion and climate collapse are literally all happening right now, and ww3 is currently in the process of kicking off.
I get that people want hope, but believing in entropy defying magic that will rewrite physics and human nature and save us all from ourselves at the last second… is naive at best and actively harmful at worst.
Use solarpunk ethos to build local communities and pool resources by all means though, but maybe think twice before having kids.
Late stage capitalism, fascism […] and ww3 is currently in the process of kicking off.
If one doesn’t believe a revolution or significant change isn’t imminent and necessary (within the next 5 years), they aren’t paying attention or they are not informed. I don’t care what your ideology is (and how capitalist you are) — comprehensive action and change, specifically solutions, need to manifest soon.
WW3 can fuck right off, it takes soldiers and willing participants to fight. We had massive desertion in the Vietnam War, I reckon that if the world was able to focus just for a second on common dreads and our shared reality, we’d identify that we can’t afford to continue the current world order and state of affairs and discontinue hostile actions.
War is a wet dream for the capitalists at the very top of the food chain, who are likely frightened that they no longer can maintain their power without it.
resource depletion
Resource depletion implies that we continue our state of affairs — with our reliance on fossil fuels and other non-renewable materials, at a large and very wasteful scale.
Infinite growth on a finite world is fundamentally unsustainable. We are blasting through tipping points and heat records daily now and the world is still fundamentally reliant on fossil fuels, despite how fast ‘renewable resources’ are developing.
Scaling vertical farms, renewable energy, and energy storage (that doesn’t use rare earth materials) are not crazy suggestions. We can build high speed rail powered by renewables, that carries freight and also passengers. We can develop sustainable economies of scale and rethink the global economy.
Our planet can support humanity and every living being on it for the foreseeable future if we take action.
climate collapse
We can mitigate effects of the climate collapse by moving our agriculture indoors and growing food where it’s natural, rational, and sustainable to do so — in addition to exploring new soil and agricultural practices. We can leverage GMO technology sustainably and keep it in balance with the environment.
We can encourage degrowth and decentralization. We can centralize where it makes sense (with all of our centralization being designed to be sustainable and self-sufficient). We will already have to move many cities for various reasons, we are positioned to make development make sense instead of creating urban, ecosystem-disrupting, concrete and asphalt hellholes.
We can build our houses better and refit houses to better withstand climate effects, without expending a ton of energy to do so.
I get that people want hope, but believing in entropy defying magic that will rewrite physics and human nature and save us all from ourselves at the last second… is naive at best and actively harmful at worst.
You don’t need entropy defying magic to address the current world system and the many crises we are facing. I believe it’s undesirable to advocate doom and worst-case scenarios without considering what is in our power and advocating for it.
I don’t believe human nature is inherently violent or greedy. I believe our system elevates and enables people with these character traits — we need to rethink it and the power they have over others.
We need to shift our collective mindset from lack and survival in imbalance (and in a sea of abundance), to thriving in balance with nature.
but maybe think twice before having kids.
People already aren’t having kids at the rate that they once were, global birth rate is on the decline year after year, and fertility is down by a lot for a lot of reasons.
I don’t have the energy to try and explain current events, capitalism, history and physics to you.
Prepare yourself for the worst, hope for the best, and lower your expectations a bit because you’re definitely going to be disappointed.
I don’t have the energy to try and explain current events, capitalism, history and physics to you.
I understand current events, capitalism, and history better than most. Physics doesn’t relate to our conversation because I am not suggesting or advocating for infinite growth.
I suggest that you engage with your home instance slrpnk.net with your views for more stimulating conversation and discourse and browse the community and expose yourself to the movement with an open mind. There is plenty of activity on /r/solarpunk, as well.
Prepare yourself for the worst, hope for the best, and lower your expectations a bit because you’re definitely going to be disappointed.
I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m not preparing myself for the worst or “lowering my expectations”. We either commit collective suicide and devolve into barbarism and scarcity or we choose a different path that is more desirable.
I say this all the time: we built an economic system based on scarcity, and then manufactured scarcity.
Sure but scarcity due to broken supply chains is a real thing. It doesn’t matter how wealthy you are if you physically cannot get your supplies where they are needed there will be scarcity and it will not be artificial
We do need to have more self-sufficient societal development. Shipping critical materials (raw or otherwise) and critical goods across the world doesn’t make a whole lot of sense unless something is unique or a very rare resource.
We don’t need to put our eggs all in one basket — global supply lines e.g. should be for specialties and artisan goods, to ship excesses in production, and be used for aid.
The current global trade system relies on exploitation and slavery (even child slavery e.g. with cocoa).
We suck third-world countries of everything they have; their land, their labor, their resources, and their goods — and all the wealth concentrates into the hands of the very few in first-world countries. The result is the stagnation of the exploited region’s development — we trap them into these conditions of servitude.
