They are fine with this trade

This bothsiderism is pretty thoughtless.

It is true that both contribute to a surveillance state but to equate both is to just ignore all policy differences, actions and more to pretend to be nuanced while painting everything as the same shade of grey, which is a downgrade to even black and white thinking.

We’re clearly at a unproductive point in this conversation where you are slinging accusations and we clearly are at an impasse. I think your position ignores the valid perspective of others, you think it outweighs every other position even from people who try to do better just as you claim to.

That seems to be it. I can’t convince you, and you certainly haven’t convinced me.

know the kind of people you’re actually talking about. There is still value in electing the lesser evil, and pushing to get better and more progressive Dems in office (that are usually better at pushing back against fascism anyways)

This is exactly my point. The democrats have huge AIPAC backing and support some awful things, but they are fucking saints compared to the only other options in this political system.

They are the only potential vehicles for long term change and stability exactly the way you described.

Progressive candidates have to be winning primaries despite swimming upstream, and democrats have to continue winning federally despite the bad taste (chemo) they put in your mouth.

Yet you posted the initial useless comment that does the same thing.

Every opinion to convince other people is that.

There was no substance in this reply. You haven’t shown knowledge of anything, and havent addressed any criticisms levied.

The crazy thing is that so many issues matter all at once.

And yet still, somewhere out there, there is a fake or brain dead leftist spouting on about how democrats support genocide.

“Chemo makes me sick, so Ill stick with Cancer”

I like me a drink cloaca. A human cloaca would have been much more egalitarian. Straight, gay, lesbian, you get the same shit.

Maybe. I am weird.

That being said, there are no regular people going to these stores.

You clearly are angry with your interpretation of the attitudes in this thread. No one is “feuding”

it had to be said

No, no it did not.

the same thing all over again

As is the cyclical nature of memes, and more evidence it absolutely did not need to be said, because it was dead wrong.

Good to know you have no idea what you’re talking about. Climate change is already causing serious deaths, now.

Far less than the issues listed to the people affected.

Climate change deathes currently are largely avoidable and it comes up as a relatively small source of death.

You’re nitpicking here to try to ignore the point.

It’s my generation that will be dying because of this.

Nope. No one alive today will witness any kind of apocalypse generation killing event.

Because climate change won’t… ??

You must worry about your house fire first before you fear the flood next month.

Yes, fascism is important. But not nearly as important as fighting climate change.

This is the type of “I’m a priveleged cisgendered straight white person so the marginalized people can be fed to the machine” ass comment I would expect from you.

They’ll come for you eventually too bud.

There isn’t a future to fight for if climate change isn’t blocked, you do understand that, right?

Hysterics don’t make you right. That is in more than 100 years when anyone talking right now is long dead.

Fascism could have you or I in a death camp within our lives, or trigger nuclear war, given it actually did the last time it flared up this seriously, except this time a shit ton of countries have nukes. Nukes? Talk about climate changing.

It could be solved in under a decade if people cared.

You continue to think from a perspective of blame rather than pragmatism.

People are the biggest hurdle for literally every major problem. Learning how the general public is propagandized too, what regulations reinforce and or strengthen the problem, how and which politicians are bought and paid off for to fight the problem and more.

The root cause and key is making the Overton window shift left. It is therefore the biggest problem, even to you, by being in the way for solving your problem as the actual biggest problem.

You don’t seem to actually understand how dangerous climate change is presently. You still see it as an abstract future rather than an awful and worsening present

I completely understand it. You clearly do not understand how bad the other problems I listed are.

You care far more about the rock we float on, than the people on said rock. Everything you say is in service of the rock rather than the people. What has more influence in peoples lives right now? All the things I mentioned.

Other people have good reason to be focused on those first.

I see what happened when voters and people actually cared. The cities changed, improved.

Oh which American cities are these? Are they per chance small mostly urban areas with progressive leaders?

I mean fuck it, I won’t be coy, we all see Mamdani. Somehow you won’t connect the dot’s though.

It proves that propaganda is not some magical convincing force that forces people to think one way, the way you pretend it is.

This is once again you doing mental gymnastics to pretend that blaming people will solve the problem any at all. Blaming people does not work.

Every guide I’ve seen says even a 9060XT 16gb is very overkill compared to consoles.

I expect them to care about the potential mass death of most humans and environments that has been blasting on the news and taught to most for decades … and I think that’s reasonable.

I promise you there are topics more important to other people than that.

Many, reasonably, care about the wave of fascism poised to severely harm them, their families, their loved ones or their fellow countryman, a more immediate threat.

Many, reasonably, care about the insane unaffordability of housing due to corruption, corporate landlords, landlords in general, and houses being treated as investment vehicles.

Many, reasonably are worried about the massively accelerating wealth inequality and the disaster this spells for them and their future generations.

Many…

The point is, every single one of these points is more not less important than the point you care about primarily to many people. They aren’t wrong or stupid for having different priorities to you.

I would even go so far as saying that I think it’s foolish to value something so large scale and existential like global collapse over the next few hundred years due to climate change than a lot of the societal elements that contribute to it.

What does it matter what climate future humans live in if they’re enslaved or being murdered by fascists?

What does it matter if your descendants don’t exist because they can’t afford to live.

If someone tells you to kill a guy and you do, does it make sense to exclusively blame the person who told you? No. They’ve been given the information and tools to find more information.

Again, many people think the same thing for you, and they’re just as right, yet completely uselessly so as you are.

This is purely a self masturbatory blame assignment rather than a useful piece of information to accomplish goals.

Worse than that, it chooses to ignorantly fundamentally misunderstand how people work, yet expect to change what it doesn’t understand.

The standard I want is “trying” to do better. I want people to actually try to reduce their impact. That’s it. It’s not a high standard.

There you are again, missing the point and it feels like it has to be purposeful at this point.

Many people try to do better but can’t be as focused on this as you are because they’re being better in areas you are not being better in.

And simply, if you think propaganda can influence everyone enough that it makes changing individuals impossible, why do you think that convincing them to vote differently is possible?

This is an obvious and silly strawman.

I literally list why directly convincing people on this topic is less important and likely to work than impacting political systems that are used to uphold the propaganda points that cause these problems in the first place.

You’re slamming into a brick wall rather than trying to pick the lock on the door.

It is a tad ironic that you talk about the influence of propaganda and are still stuck on the idea that people need cars.

Its crazy to be this ignorant and with a bad faith point to boot.

Carcentricity has made it such that many people do in fact need cars.

This is not a problem. that can be solved quickly.

You pretending that acknowledging this reality means that I can’t conceive of anything else despite that obviously not being the case is you being dishonest in discussion, which at that point, why are you arguing? Why bother?

Climate change is the single most important issue, bar none.

An extremely naive and privileged perspective.

You’re worrying about the future of the species like that is an entity that can feel pain. No, it’s an idea, a prediction. It’s something that absolutely is not the top concern of the people struggling and facing real issues to their lives right now at this very moment. Just about the only people I can imagine could possibly hold this opinion are out of touch well to do people.

I did not watch your video as I’m already well aware

You are clearly missing a lot, so if you actually walked the walk, you’d watch it and see what you’re missing, because in this conversation alone you’ve made it clear you don’t understand how deep or effective it has been, what policies have been put in place due to it, etc.

North American roads are the way they are due to it.

I don’t believe people blindly believing clearly false propaganda are faultless

You are so impossibly stuck up your own ass, sniffing your own farts.

There are literally thousands if not millions of you people on every conceivable issue under the sun, and you’d all hate each other if you met, because you all are so lacking in empathy and perspective that you’d all be befuddled and enraged you didn’t all center around the single issues you all think are most important bar none. You’d all be irrate that the others dare “blindly believe this” and “foolishly follow that”.

Until you people realize what a problem this mentality is, you’ll literally never make substantive change.

It clearly insults the customer base, insinuates about them. We’re arguing in circles. I disagree and think you’re being a dick about it. Let’s end it here.

You aren’t disagreeing honestly. You’re disagreeing as if you can’t see my arguments. I wish lemmy as a platform had a “mute replies to this comment” so I could stop seeing the replies on this thread specifically. No one is arguing in good faith, they’re all, like you, masturbating to the idea of feeling superior to people rather than acknowledging the disrespect to the customers.

By having the sign there, a certain percentage of stinky people are going to know they aren’t welcome and leave without having to be told.

That percentage is precisely 0.

People aren’t going in thinking they’re stink, and the ones who were before, won’t stop after.

For those who ignore it, the employees of the store and other customers now all have a posted policy they can point to when they ask them to leave. Opposed to not having the sign and it being left open to argument.

It wouldn’t be left open to argument regardless.

All this does is insult their customer base. That’s literally it. It serves no practical or functional purpose.

Any time I see signs generally insulting a customer base like this, you’ve lost me as a customer. Not just specifically this sign, but any sign in general talking down to customers.

I can’t believe the number of people who support this.

This makes no sense. You could kick them out the same regardless of the sign. The sign only serves the purpose I’m mentioning and I’ve not seen an argument otherwise.

Leveling up and progressing are thing that give a sense of accomplishment.

Indeed. They are built to trigger your reward system rather than having you feel that naturally from the gameplay.

I absolutely think those are included and utterly hate grinding.

But you can’t tell me that making a build on a game like DND or building a world you like on Minecraft are “dark patterns”

Where are you getting that from there?

At this point your comment is tantamount to trolling, because there is no way you don’t understand my message.