Finally. We finally get to hear the “we can’t do anything” reasons from the European liberals that those of us on the left have been critizing internally in America with American liberals. It’s amazing how similar these arguments for inaction are. “Follow the rules while they violate them” is not going to stop American fascism.
It’s funny because the European liberals really loved to grandstand on their superior democracy against America and the failures of American liberalism in the face of fascism. But, really, the European liberals have significantly more in common with American liberals than they’d like to admit. They will roll over and ask for “just one more Injunction” and ultimately do nothing to stop it either.
When a foreign actor is violating the territory of a member of the European Union and your response is essentially “not our problem”. You’re opening the door for the same creeping fascism that the American liberals have allowed.
Focus on what you CAN do. If you are just listing of reasons for why nothing can be done you are no different than the useless American democrat party.
You have to stop this at the first step. And Greenland isn’t the one blocking Europe from doing something. America is doing something illegal. Europe either organizes to stop this “small” expansion now. Or you wait and wait until it becomes too big to ignore and too big to actually do anything against.
Ah yes, let’s instead trample the rights of people living there and be just like Trump and his cronies.
When a foreign actor is violating the territory of a member of the European Union and your response is essentially “not our problem”.
Greenland is not a member of the European Union. They are an autonomous territory belonging to the Kingdom of Denmark. The European Union has no jurisdiction over the island. They initially joined the EU when Denmark joined but then later had a referendum and decided to leave the EU over the fishing regulations the EU has in place. They are still part of the Overseas Country and Territory (OCT) framework and they receive funding and other benefits through that but they are not subject to EU regulations and laws.
And Greenland isn’t the one blocking Europe from doing something.
Greenland has not asked for intervention from Denmark or the EU. Do you just want Denmark to just violate their sovereignty? Because that just sounds like what Trump is doing. If Greenland asks for intervention then Denmark and other EU/NATO members can do it. There are Danish and NATO troops in Greenland right at this moment as part of Operation Arctic Endurance which started as a response to Trump and is still ongoing.
You seem to be misinformed about what is happening in Denmark and the response to Trump’s talk and just want Europeans to also violate Greenland’s autonomy and get on the path to authoritarianism. Once you go down that path there is no going back.
It’s amazing how similar your response is to another response I got. I’m not gonna continue another thread. Go read my comment history if you want a response.
You are aware, that “European liberals” are something entirely different compared to what the US perceives as “liberal”? European liberalism is all about “free market”, so of course you won’t hear anything from them. Well, that, and the fact that your media doesn’t seem to report a lot of it…
And Greenland isn’t the one blocking Europe from doing something.
Europe isn’t a country. And Greenland isn’t even an official member of the EU, it’s a territory of Denmark, under Danish jurisdiction. There is no legal framework for other EU countries to say “We’re gonna police the fuck out of that country whether they like it or not” without explicit permission of the country in question. Nobody is going to drop nukes over a permit. The reaction of Denmark and Greenland to this particular incident was simply by stopping the drilling for 2026 and delaying the permit to winter 2027.
Besides that, there was already a reaction in January, when Denmark sent military personnel to Greenland, and several EU + Nato countries sent some forces over there. Publicly they called it “military exercise”, but it is pretty obvious that they also function as tripwire force. However, nobody is delusional enough to think they could hold that Island when the US decides to invade in the near future.
It appears that American propaganda isn’t just affecting the Maga crowd…
You are aware, that “European liberals” are something entirely different compared to what the US perceives as “liberal”?
Yes, I’m using the word in the same way you are referring to. But you’re referring to the economic part of it. I’m referring to “liberal democracy” and the focus on process over outcome. You can’t understand “liberalism” outside of a class based understanding of its role in bourgeoise democracy.
Europe isn’t a country. And Greenland isn’t even an official member of the EU, it’s a territory of Denmark, under Danish jurisdiction.
Yes, which is why I referred to it as such. Did you miss the part where I referred to it as a territory? I’m not sure what point you’re arguing here. I definitely refer to “Europe and the EU” interchangeably sometimes. That’s my mistake if that wasn’t clear. But when talking about foreign policy that is how these relationships happen.
You are, however, doing exactly what I am critizing. Pointing to “tied hands” in the face of a nation that is violating the sovereignty of a people and their land. THAT is my criticism. It’s literally with the systems of liberal democracy that are useless in fighting the creep of fascism.
You’re pointing to the “rules” that European nations are limited by l that prevent them from working to an outcome in order to preserve their process.
I’m talking of understanding how fascism exploits this. It’s why one may feel “safe” in the systems of liberal democracy. They are still functioning. But I would hope you’re able to realize that those systems are the very things that allow Fascism to creep and take control. It’s why it’s hard to notice “the line” in which liberal democracy becomes “Fascism”. Fascist exploit the very reasons you gave for not taking action. With a false hope that a future act of the system will stop it. (You’re reference to 2027 policy that will stop it)
It won’t. It will at best delay to make you believe the system is working to defend you. It defends the interest of class hierarchy. It doesn’t defend the misconception of democracy that “liberals” believe in.
The reports on land seizure are not inaccurate. They are preparing a normalization. The technicality of “delay” or “process” are the very way that they become reality.
I can’t say it better than this explanation that I constantly keep in mind. It’s worth a listen for 10 minutes even if you disagree with what I’ve said.
I’d rather recommend you to start looking up what “sovereign nations” means and how the EU actually works. Because you seem to have trouble comprehending the most basic thing that makes the EU work in the first place, which is also the reason why other responses to you seem so similar to you. The EU is not like the US. It is not a full government. We have no “federal police”, no “federal military”, no “national guard” or anything like that.
You basically want us to walk over the sovereignty of another nation, to defend it from a failing empire that is trying to walk over the sovereignty of that nation. A pretty clear contradiction. These things aren’t just “technicalities”. Doing that would break the EU as an entity, because it would destroy the trust between the member nations.
This is also why the initial comment of the other guy with the 2nd amendment thing seems quite ignorant to anyone outside the US. You guys have jurisdiction over the things your own government does.
Could we do more regarding Trump and his cronies? Probably. But with the current design of the EU it requires member countries to agree upon a common approach. However, saying that there was nothing done at all, is clearly wrong too, as i have explained before. Sending military envoys as unofficial tripwire at the request of the affected state isn’t “nothing”. And in the end it’s still your job to rid yourselves from this shit show. Even if it came to war, and the US would somehow be defeated and occupied, it would still be on you to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Finally. We finally get to hear the “we can’t do anything” reasons from the European liberals that those of us on the left have been critizing internally in America with American liberals. It’s amazing how similar these arguments for inaction are. “Follow the rules while they violate them” is not going to stop American fascism.
It’s funny because the European liberals really loved to grandstand on their superior democracy against America and the failures of American liberalism in the face of fascism. But, really, the European liberals have significantly more in common with American liberals than they’d like to admit. They will roll over and ask for “just one more Injunction” and ultimately do nothing to stop it either.
When a foreign actor is violating the territory of a member of the European Union and your response is essentially “not our problem”. You’re opening the door for the same creeping fascism that the American liberals have allowed.
Focus on what you CAN do. If you are just listing of reasons for why nothing can be done you are no different than the useless American democrat party.
You have to stop this at the first step. And Greenland isn’t the one blocking Europe from doing something. America is doing something illegal. Europe either organizes to stop this “small” expansion now. Or you wait and wait until it becomes too big to ignore and too big to actually do anything against.
Ah yes, let’s instead trample the rights of people living there and be just like Trump and his cronies.
Greenland is not a member of the European Union. They are an autonomous territory belonging to the Kingdom of Denmark. The European Union has no jurisdiction over the island. They initially joined the EU when Denmark joined but then later had a referendum and decided to leave the EU over the fishing regulations the EU has in place. They are still part of the Overseas Country and Territory (OCT) framework and they receive funding and other benefits through that but they are not subject to EU regulations and laws.
Greenland has not asked for intervention from Denmark or the EU. Do you just want Denmark to just violate their sovereignty? Because that just sounds like what Trump is doing. If Greenland asks for intervention then Denmark and other EU/NATO members can do it. There are Danish and NATO troops in Greenland right at this moment as part of Operation Arctic Endurance which started as a response to Trump and is still ongoing.
You seem to be misinformed about what is happening in Denmark and the response to Trump’s talk and just want Europeans to also violate Greenland’s autonomy and get on the path to authoritarianism. Once you go down that path there is no going back.
It’s amazing how similar your response is to another response I got. I’m not gonna continue another thread. Go read my comment history if you want a response.
You are aware, that “European liberals” are something entirely different compared to what the US perceives as “liberal”? European liberalism is all about “free market”, so of course you won’t hear anything from them. Well, that, and the fact that your media doesn’t seem to report a lot of it…
Europe isn’t a country. And Greenland isn’t even an official member of the EU, it’s a territory of Denmark, under Danish jurisdiction. There is no legal framework for other EU countries to say “We’re gonna police the fuck out of that country whether they like it or not” without explicit permission of the country in question. Nobody is going to drop nukes over a permit. The reaction of Denmark and Greenland to this particular incident was simply by stopping the drilling for 2026 and delaying the permit to winter 2027.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/aug/12/trump-greenland-oil
Besides that, there was already a reaction in January, when Denmark sent military personnel to Greenland, and several EU + Nato countries sent some forces over there. Publicly they called it “military exercise”, but it is pretty obvious that they also function as tripwire force. However, nobody is delusional enough to think they could hold that Island when the US decides to invade in the near future.
It appears that American propaganda isn’t just affecting the Maga crowd…
Yes, I’m using the word in the same way you are referring to. But you’re referring to the economic part of it. I’m referring to “liberal democracy” and the focus on process over outcome. You can’t understand “liberalism” outside of a class based understanding of its role in bourgeoise democracy.
Yes, which is why I referred to it as such. Did you miss the part where I referred to it as a territory? I’m not sure what point you’re arguing here. I definitely refer to “Europe and the EU” interchangeably sometimes. That’s my mistake if that wasn’t clear. But when talking about foreign policy that is how these relationships happen.
You are, however, doing exactly what I am critizing. Pointing to “tied hands” in the face of a nation that is violating the sovereignty of a people and their land. THAT is my criticism. It’s literally with the systems of liberal democracy that are useless in fighting the creep of fascism.
You’re pointing to the “rules” that European nations are limited by l that prevent them from working to an outcome in order to preserve their process.
I’m talking of understanding how fascism exploits this. It’s why one may feel “safe” in the systems of liberal democracy. They are still functioning. But I would hope you’re able to realize that those systems are the very things that allow Fascism to creep and take control. It’s why it’s hard to notice “the line” in which liberal democracy becomes “Fascism”. Fascist exploit the very reasons you gave for not taking action. With a false hope that a future act of the system will stop it. (You’re reference to 2027 policy that will stop it)
It won’t. It will at best delay to make you believe the system is working to defend you. It defends the interest of class hierarchy. It doesn’t defend the misconception of democracy that “liberals” believe in.
The reports on land seizure are not inaccurate. They are preparing a normalization. The technicality of “delay” or “process” are the very way that they become reality.
I can’t say it better than this explanation that I constantly keep in mind. It’s worth a listen for 10 minutes even if you disagree with what I’ve said.
https://youtu.be/0YFdwfNh5vs
I’d rather recommend you to start looking up what “sovereign nations” means and how the EU actually works. Because you seem to have trouble comprehending the most basic thing that makes the EU work in the first place, which is also the reason why other responses to you seem so similar to you. The EU is not like the US. It is not a full government. We have no “federal police”, no “federal military”, no “national guard” or anything like that.
You basically want us to walk over the sovereignty of another nation, to defend it from a failing empire that is trying to walk over the sovereignty of that nation. A pretty clear contradiction. These things aren’t just “technicalities”. Doing that would break the EU as an entity, because it would destroy the trust between the member nations.
This is also why the initial comment of the other guy with the 2nd amendment thing seems quite ignorant to anyone outside the US. You guys have jurisdiction over the things your own government does.
Could we do more regarding Trump and his cronies? Probably. But with the current design of the EU it requires member countries to agree upon a common approach. However, saying that there was nothing done at all, is clearly wrong too, as i have explained before. Sending military envoys as unofficial tripwire at the request of the affected state isn’t “nothing”. And in the end it’s still your job to rid yourselves from this shit show. Even if it came to war, and the US would somehow be defeated and occupied, it would still be on you to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
This has not happened. A private company is threatening to drill before it is permitted.
Trump wants this to escalate so the important thing it not to let it.
Nothing to do with liberalism and your confusion of the difference.
(US Liberals are closer to anarchists. EU liberals are closer to Bernie)