Also how do we determine what to spend resources on for R&D? It would be difficult to come up with an idea, know that it will take lots of labor and know there will be no benefit to oneself or their family vs doing the absolute bare minimum and getting more time with ones kids for the same outcome.
Spend more time with the kids. It’s ok. You don’t need capitalism’s permission.
Let’s be honest here. Most corporate r&d is another flavor of soft drink. We’ll be fine without. Most actual research is autists (complimentary) pursuing their special interest. They don’t need daddy dollar to tell them their work it’s important. They feel it.
Imagine generating billions of dollars of value and you don’t even get a pizza party. Not one dime for you or your family beyond your base pay. There’s less incentive to go out of your way to produce value if it’s not going to benefit you. No reason to work hard for anything if you’ll just be paid the same either way.
Not really though. Under capitalism people are free to quit their job, and go start a company to test their idea and develop their own IP. The vast majority of founders worked for someone else Nvidia is a good example currently. Jensen Huang worked for AMD, Chris Malachowsky worked for HP, Curtis Priem worked for IBM. They had an idea, they quit their jobs and profited directly off their IP. Under a pure socialist system would you be able to quit your job? Who would you get capital from to test an idea? Also if it worked you wouldn’t get any profits from it, not even a pizza party or a Friday off even after producing billions of dollars in value. There would be zero incentive to doing anything but the absolute minimum because the compensation would be exactly the same if you did or if you didn’t. Why put in 100hr+ weeks of labor for nothing? No matter how hard you worked you and your family wouldn’t get anything, your children would be treated the same as the children of a man who put in the absolute bare minimum.
I’m cool with socializing a lot of things but we need to compensate people proportionally to the quality and quantity of value they produce.
Please don’t just downvote this. I’m open to discussion and to standing corrected. If you want to downvote then downvote with a worthwhile counter to the point at hand.
But if they wanted to they were free to start a company and profit from their IP directly, they chose not to (assuming they didn’t personally choose to sign some perpetual non-compete of which would have still been their choice). That’s different than it being illegal to do so. No one ever got rich from working hard? I’m guessing you’re unaware of most tech founders who had an idea, left the company they were at, started their own and became wealthy. Nvidia is a good example currently. Jensen Huang worked for AMD, Chris Malachowsky worked for HP, Curtis Priem worked for IBM. They had an idea, they quit their jobs and profited directly off their IP.
This story is extremely common across so many industries. Most founders once worked for someone else, had an idea, quit, and started their own company. Imagine you just work for the government, if you have an idea well cool for you we’re not funding that and you want to quit? How about no. Oh we actually let you quit and give you funding for your idea, well your pay will never increase no matter how much value you produce or how many hours you work to bring your idea to life. You work 35 hours per week or 100, same pay. You generated 10 billion dollars of value? You don’t even get a pizza party or a short day this Friday.
I’m cool with socializing a lot of things but there needs to be a way to compensate people to some degree based on the quality and quantity of their labor. There needs to be some freedom for a person to do what they want or even take out financial risk (loans) to change what they are doing aka go to school, start a company and so on.
Edit: please don’t just downvote, actually respond with a worthwhile point. I’m more than willing to concede a debate and hopefully you are as well.
Then don’t do it. We can tell when it’s a crass cash grab anyway.
Also how do we determine what to spend resources on for R&D? It would be difficult to come up with an idea, know that it will take lots of labor and know there will be no benefit to oneself or their family vs doing the absolute bare minimum and getting more time with ones kids for the same outcome.
Spend more time with the kids. It’s ok. You don’t need capitalism’s permission.
Let’s be honest here. Most corporate r&d is another flavor of soft drink. We’ll be fine without. Most actual research is autists (complimentary) pursuing their special interest. They don’t need daddy dollar to tell them their work it’s important. They feel it.
Spend time with your kids.
Imagine generating billions of dollars of value and you don’t even get a pizza party. Not one dime for you or your family beyond your base pay. There’s less incentive to go out of your way to produce value if it’s not going to benefit you. No reason to work hard for anything if you’ll just be paid the same either way.
You just described capitalism.
Not really though. Under capitalism people are free to quit their job, and go start a company to test their idea and develop their own IP. The vast majority of founders worked for someone else Nvidia is a good example currently. Jensen Huang worked for AMD, Chris Malachowsky worked for HP, Curtis Priem worked for IBM. They had an idea, they quit their jobs and profited directly off their IP. Under a pure socialist system would you be able to quit your job? Who would you get capital from to test an idea? Also if it worked you wouldn’t get any profits from it, not even a pizza party or a Friday off even after producing billions of dollars in value. There would be zero incentive to doing anything but the absolute minimum because the compensation would be exactly the same if you did or if you didn’t. Why put in 100hr+ weeks of labor for nothing? No matter how hard you worked you and your family wouldn’t get anything, your children would be treated the same as the children of a man who put in the absolute bare minimum.
I’m cool with socializing a lot of things but we need to compensate people proportionally to the quality and quantity of value they produce.
Please don’t just downvote this. I’m open to discussion and to standing corrected. If you want to downvote then downvote with a worthwhile counter to the point at hand.
I don’t have to imagine, I used to work in commercial r&d. What you are describing is the reality for almost everyone under capitalism already.
No one ever got rich by working hard. The rich got rich by exploiting the work of others.
But if they wanted to they were free to start a company and profit from their IP directly, they chose not to (assuming they didn’t personally choose to sign some perpetual non-compete of which would have still been their choice). That’s different than it being illegal to do so. No one ever got rich from working hard? I’m guessing you’re unaware of most tech founders who had an idea, left the company they were at, started their own and became wealthy. Nvidia is a good example currently. Jensen Huang worked for AMD, Chris Malachowsky worked for HP, Curtis Priem worked for IBM. They had an idea, they quit their jobs and profited directly off their IP.
This story is extremely common across so many industries. Most founders once worked for someone else, had an idea, quit, and started their own company. Imagine you just work for the government, if you have an idea well cool for you we’re not funding that and you want to quit? How about no. Oh we actually let you quit and give you funding for your idea, well your pay will never increase no matter how much value you produce or how many hours you work to bring your idea to life. You work 35 hours per week or 100, same pay. You generated 10 billion dollars of value? You don’t even get a pizza party or a short day this Friday.
I’m cool with socializing a lot of things but there needs to be a way to compensate people to some degree based on the quality and quantity of their labor. There needs to be some freedom for a person to do what they want or even take out financial risk (loans) to change what they are doing aka go to school, start a company and so on.
Edit: please don’t just downvote, actually respond with a worthwhile point. I’m more than willing to concede a debate and hopefully you are as well.