Doesn’t matter to them if it’s not happening to them.
Trash humans gonna be trash humans.
Conservadongs were ludicrously outraged over Ruby Ridge and Waco for fucking decades. Timothy McVeigh blew up that federal building over it and stared defiantly into the camera as the lethal injection took him at his execution. All because they thought federal agents overstepped and people died for it.
They’ll say ICE is different because illegal emigrants are breaking the law. But the day of the RR standoff, agents were there with a warrant to arrest Randy Weaver on federal charges!
Conservadongs were ludicrously outraged over Ruby Ridge and Waco for fucking decades.
Republicans did have an anti-government libertarian side in the past. But this has basically died after the post-9/11 rise of the security state.
If Waco happened again today, most republicans would side with the government, not with the cultists.
If Waco happened again today, most republicans would side with the government, not with the cultists.
But David Koresh was a huge pedophile… they would definitely have conflicted feelings about that one. twobuttonsmeme.gif.
THEY WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS
Tromp: I wanna take the guns
OK DADDY 😍
Tread on me, daddy! 🐍
2016: THE DEMOCRATS ARE RUNNING A SECRET CABAL OF PEDOPHILE OLIGARCH BILLIONAIRES, VOTE TRUMP TO EXPOSE THEM
😡😡😡2026: TRUMP IS RUNNING A SECRET CABAL OF PEDOPHILE OLIGARCH BILLIONAIRES, VOTE TRUMP THIRD TERM
̄\_ (ツ)_/ ̄
The reason they hated the idea of pedo dems is because of the implied heresy in imaginary blood drinking or whatever. The idea of them being atheists, pagans, or gay satanists or whatever. Screaming about pedos was just a marketing avenue and protective tactic because if you tried to defend people who were accused of pedophilia you ran the risk of just being pedojacketed yourself.
They’re already starting to say “Epstein was based, actually” in some rightwing political spaces. Saying he understood power or masculinity or whatever.
They never actually cared about children or pedophiles. They just hate “the other”. They’re OK with children being married to adults in number of US states law-wise and rightwingers will defend that, as long as its “trad” or “christian” or whatever.
I mean it’s like that meme when Lisa Simpsons goes “as usual, the playground has got the facts right but the point wrong entirely”, because yes, there was in fact a secret cabal of billionaires doing demonic shit to children, but it wasn’t Democrats, and wasn’t strictly Republican either, it was capitalist oligarchs, whose allegiance is not to any party but themselves, and the fight is not against a political party but against a class of neo-nobility, meaning it is against the rich, who pay off public servants on every side. It’s not about left and right, it’s about the astronomically ultra-rich and poor. Kings and queens. Again.
That said, Republicans are way overrepresented in running the errands of that nobility and willfully and openly support their reign and actively seek to destroy democracy to achieve their goals, but still.
Turns out that the definition of people in those two prompts didn’t change, it’s just different. In 2020 they meant people=me, now it’s people=them
They’ve know all along that they were facsist
Well, only kinda. They don’t actually know what the word “fascist” means.
They also don’t understand what liberal means, which means individual freedom, freedom of speech, private ownership and trial by jury, and basically the opposite of marxism or communism
Apart from private ownership how are the rest antithetical to Marxism or communism?
- Freedom of Speech vs. Ideological Unity The Liberal View: Truth is discovered through the “clash of ideas.” Even speech that is wrong or unpopular must be protected to prevent the government from becoming a thought-police.
The Marxist/Communist View: Speech is a tool of power. In a revolutionary state, speech that criticizes the party or promotes “capitalist values” is seen as a direct threat to the safety and progress of the working class. Therefore, the state must control media and education to ensure ideological unity.
The Conflict: You cannot have a state-directed “common good” if individuals are free to publicly argue against it.
- Trial by Jury vs. Revolutionary Justice The Liberal View: Justice is procedural. The state must prove a specific crime to a group of disinterested peers (the jury). It is better for a guilty man to go free than for an innocent man to be imprisoned.
The Marxist/Communist View: Justice is substantive or “Class Justice.” In many communist applications, the legal system exists to protect the revolution. If an individual is deemed a “class enemy” or “counter-revolutionary,” a trial by jury is seen as a dangerous hurdle.
The Conflict: A jury puts the power of judgment in the hands of random citizens rather than the Party. In Marxism, the Party is the vanguard of the people; allowing a jury to disagree with the Party’s accusation is a loss of control.
- Individual Freedom vs. Collective Necessity The Liberal View: You have the right to pursue your own happiness, even if it doesn’t benefit society. You can choose your job, where you live, and how you spend your time.
The Marxist/Communist View: The needs of the collective (the “Common Good”) outweigh the desires of the individual. Because the goal is to eliminate class struggle and ensure equal distribution, the state often must direct labor and resources where they are needed most.
The Conflict: If you are free to choose a path that doesn’t serve the collective plan, the plan fails. True individual freedom creates “anarchy of production,” which Marxism specifically aims to replace with central planning.
- The Origin of Rights Liberalism: Believes rights are inherent (you are born with them) and the government’s only job is to protect them.
Marxism: Believes rights are socially constructed. Since the state creates the conditions for life, the state can grant or revoke “rights” based on what serves the progress of history.
I like how you provided an educated and accurate take, and everyone downvotes you because they don’t want to say they agree with the “communist view.”
I will say, however, that it’s not exactly Marxism, but rather Leninism (often called Marxist-Leninism) that you describe.
So people do somewhat have a point, if somewhat pedantic and merely semantic.
This is just nonsense. Did an AI write it for you?
The USSR, and all the weird parallels to it that your AI write up has included, was not communism.
Maybe you shouldn’t mock people’s understanding of things when you yourself clearly don’t understand.
omg its AI links wikipedia articles
Wikipedia is based on actual sources that you can read for yourself at the bottom of the page. It’s also written by actual people and not a text generator that can’t understand what it is writing and has no idea whether it’s accurate or not because it’s not alive.
That’s a whole lot of bullshit to tell me you’ve never read Marx.
It’s not marxist, but it describes leninism to a T. And most tankies tend to be ML, not marxist.
That is correct but he didn’t mention Lenin at all, and tried to conflate Lenin with both Marx and Communism as a whole. Personally I blame Lenin for the failure of the executive branch to properly set up the soviets as democratically elected councils, rather than a supreme dictator. I also blame Lenin for Stalin.
I checked out at the obviously-AI copy-paste job with the numbered lists and shit.
I’m not opposed to communism as an idea, but it’s as realistic as the star trek universe it lives in right now. We need to push the needle left from “putting people in camps” way before we try to push the needle towards collective ownership.
Of course it’s AI (it should be obvious)… why would i spend time and effort trying to explain on a heavily marxist internet forum?
Maybe try understanding the thing yourself first. It’s actually pretty interesting, and you might actually learn some things.
if you care about communicating ideas, put effort into trying, win or lose you’re actively learning human communication skills.
If you don’t care, well you get ignored or blocked and slowly shut out of more and more opportunity to either share your ideas or learn how to change your ideas based on more things you learn along the way.
If I wanted to read what an AI had to say, I would ask a fucking AI.
deleted by creator
ML right now
Of that list, marxism only opposes private property. It doesn’t oppose the rest of that list, it’s merely not immediately concerned with them.
I wish our biggest problem with the illiterate 30% of the country is that they don’t get the terms right.
In 2015, it was people=them during the Jade Helm Scare. Abbott was so convinced in the Russian propaganda that he sent the national guard to watch a military exercise. He was convinced that Obama had shuddered several walmarts, emptied them, and was going to use the army to imprison them in said Walmarts. The russians even came up with blueprints for the Walmart prisons.
Every accusation is a confession, right?
Same with masks
It’s because Republicans and Neo-Liberals think we are as evil as they are.
Remember, those conspiracy theories about Obama and Biden only came about because the right so desperately wants to do the same to the people they hate and fear.
The idea that the left has exactly the same genocidal impulses as them is absolutely necessary to their psychological wellbeing. They have to believe that their hatred is normal. If they accept that they are the abberations, then they are forced to confront the moral consequences of their beliefs.
It’s the same reason why they deride empathy, and dismiss genuine concern for others wellbeing as “virtue signaling.” It is so important to them to believe that cruelty is a foundational component of human existence, rather than a symptom of how deeply unwell they are.
Turns out checkpoints work just as well against cars as pedestrians, you 15 minute city conspiracy theorists.
Oh yes. By car it’s more like a two minute city.
Projection is all they are.
It’s almost like bots really have taken over the net. Combined with corporate controlled media (even websites, not just traditional media).
Maybe much of what you see if a Psyops to divide people to keep them infighting.
As the internet has become more accessible, anonymity on the internet has become less and less fun. Trolling used to be so… less destructive than it is now. Some take what they see at face value and will even spread it if it aligns with what they think but not what they’d say or do.
Lemmy isn’t immune to this either. I don’t know how many anti-Kamala threads I saw on Lemmy during the election trying to convince people to not vote - what a joke.
Maybe much of what you see if a Psyops to divide people to keep them infighting.
It was written in manuals by the CIA and KGB over five decades ago, before we even had an internet, how you can destabilize a democratic nation’s social discourse and undermine elections simply by creating a small group of agents who can slip into every major social debate or issue and immediately take the most extreme positions on both sides of every issue.
This creates and draws in contentious debate and arguing about the most radical extremes of every position until the average citizen tunes out of the debate, stops trusting what’s real, and just defaults to whatever state-media says is real because there’s no other option that makes sense.
That’s not to say the CIA and KGB were primarily responsible for the erosion of our society, the people doing this have been from all over the world and right inside the USA’s borders, each trying to do it for different reasons and agendas, but also each succeeding in creating a massive middle-class population with zero interest in following politics and social issues. The 2024 exit polling backs this up, showing that most Trump voters had no clue what Trump represented or what his policies were, despite it being his second term.
We get tunnel vision in places like reddit or lemmy and forget that for most people, their news comes from either nightly network television while distracted and cooking for their family, or from 30 minutes of browsing Facebook memes on a sunday night while preparing for another 6 days of working 10 hours a day.
And it’s still going on, and yes right here in Lemmy has PLENTY of these sock-puppets, astroturfers and bad-faith shills, as well as bots, designed to invade posts with wild takes and stupid derails in order to make people argue, so casual browsers start scrolling past the mess and lose interest in the issue.
You don’t need to posit bots to explain infighting. The entire Western political system is internally contradictory. We’re going to fight internally until we dissolve the contradictions that drive us. And that’s just nowhere near ready to happen. Case in point, you think the only reason not to vote Kamala is because of bots. Since you, and many like you, don’t seem to have any sense of reality, how are we ever going to deal with the contradictions that drive our infighting?
I certainly don’t think the only reason not to vote for Kamala is because bots, but to not think that bots aren’t diving division on Social media (which Lemmy is) I think is not living in 2026. The internet is not what it used to be.
The options during that election were 2 choices. We knew what would happen if Trump was elected, the writing was on the wall, Project 2025 was published, and people on Lemmy were still arguing about why not to vote for Kamala.
Convincing people to not vote for Kamala in arguably one of the most important elections was and is asinine, and shit was all over Lemmy during the election run. Give me a corporate Democrat over this shitshow any day, and the shitshow is only going to get worse.
how are we ever going to deal with the contradictions that drive our infighting?
There’s a difference between discussing conflicts and telling people not to vote because of those conflicts.
Since you, and many like you, don’t seem to have any sense of reality,
I don’t know, maybe we talk about respect to start? You just come into a conversation and start looking down your nose at others assuming that they’re not living in reality because they have a different opinion than you. What a bad way to start a conversation. What a bad way to win someone over. What a bad way to run a community.
I feel like I shouldn’t need to clarify, but just to be clear, I don’t think you’re trying to “win my opinion over” or “running a[ny] community” but the point is that from a non-conservative standpoint (since I don’t know you’re political spectrum, but are on Lemmy) these are things that I think should be persistent. Otherwise, it’s just going to push people away and/or people won’t even engage in the message.
and people on Lemmy were still arguing about why not to vote for Kamala.
The people who argued for that are the same folks that see the trolley problem and don’t pull the lever because pulling the lever would make them responsible for the result, while they feel like not taking action (even explicitly, intentionally not taking action) absolves them of responsibility for the result. So in their view they’d either be responsible for one person getting run over, or not responsible for 5 getting run over.
I saw VERY few people saying not to vote. What I saw was a ton of people saying that voting Kamala was voting for fascism and wouldn’t solve the problem. I saw a lot of people saying that they wouldn’t commit their time and money and relationship capital to organizing for Kamala because they weren’t going to support a fascist.
Voting is the absolute least powerful form of democratic expression, and voting Kamala would have resulted in an only slightly different path of incremental fascism. And now we’re going to talk about reality.
The reality is that Trump is not the CAUSE, he’s the EFFECT. The country is rotten to its core. It’s fundamentally and irreparably contradictory and it is based on the worst aspects of humanity. DJT may be bad, but Thomas Jefferson was worse. Don’t believe me? Jefferson ran breeding plantations, kept a slave girl in a cave inside his bedroom for raping, and tried to use his political power to end the transatlantic slave trade to drive increased demand for the slaves he was breeding domestically. Full on worse than absolutely everything DJT has done.
Voting to the Democrat fascist was not going to save us. The problem was here. Biden did fuck all to stop Trump. The Ds are doing fuck all to stop Trump. Voting for Ds is voting for masked fascism and Rs is voting for unmasked fascism. No. I do not think we should be spending our time and effort voting for masked fascism.
Again, reality. The reality is that mass incarceration is a bi-partisan consensus and has been for decades. The US imprisons more of its people than any other country (although El Salvador and Cuba beat the US last year, I doubt they’ll hold those positions much longer). The US parole system is 2x as big as the US prison population, it’s the biggest mass surveillance program of its kind. Bi-partisan support. Prison slave labor is a bi-partisan consensus. Prison slaves produce over $11Bn worth of goods and services. Collective punishment and starvation is a bi-partisan consensus. In the last 50 years US sanctions (and their EU followers) have killed almost 40 million people. Domestic wiretapping by the NSA has bi-partisan support. The war machine has full bi-partisan support. Obama and HRC destroyed Libya as part of the plan that the GWB administration established. Total bi-partisan continuity.
They’re ALL fucking fascists. They’re all mass murderers. They’re all slave masters. FFS Bill and Hillary has house slaves when they were in the Governor’s Mansion in Arkansas - literally black prison slaves worked for them in their domicile for years.
The problem is INSIDE THE HOUSE, it’s not outside agitators. Yes, outside agitators do exist. They are exploring what they can do to help the decline accelerate. But they’re just adding gasoline to an already burning country-wide forest wire that is 0% contained. The bots are accelerants. The problems are ours and ours alone. Kamala can’t save us. The Democrats can’t save us. They are fully and fundamentally part of the problem.
The Democratic Party have been the only party to drive positive change in this country. Positive social change. Positive economic change. Positive international change. Are they perfect? No - there is no perfect system. Chasing perfection is a fools errand.
To think that voting is the least powerful of Democratic expression is (I believe to be) an absurd statement. Local elections matter. Country elections matter. You’re not changing the system from the outside, a system that’s ran ~250 years. There’s no hope of a civil war beating the U.S. Military Complex. What will happen instead, just like the CIA did/does, is 3rd parties will join in to continue the fighting for their own gain.
The only change to the U.S. system so that the least amount of people die should have come from within.
Also, If they’re all fascists, and we literally have a choice between the fascist who at least has a backing party history of social and economic growth vs one whose going to try to become a defacto ruler; the choice should have been obvious.
The problems are ours and ours alone.
Then we are ultimately fucked. Corporate internet is programming masses due to being absolutely unregulated.
The Democrats can’t save us.
There’s no change, no movement without leadership and organization. Between the 2 parties, the better leadership comes from the Democratic Party. The better organization comes from the Democratic Party. Until a 3rd party finds leadership, finds the organization to make the push for change, then they are it. Hopefully the future has that, but the past election was between what we’re seeing now and what could have been.
The Democratic Party have been the only party to drive positive change in this country. Positive social change. Positive economic change. Positive international change. Are they perfect? No - there is no perfect system. Chasing perfection is a fools errand.
This is a delusional position. No one is asking for perfection. I’m asking for Hillary Clinton to not celebrate the sodomization of a septuagenarian head of state with a bayonet by gleefully shouting “We came! We saw! He died!”
I’m not asking for perfection. I’m asking for the crimes against humanity to stop.
You know what’s not perfect? When politicians mortgage their oil futures and then oil prices collapse. That is so far from what I’m talking about it’s ridiculous.
I can keep going. Can we stop training terrorists? How about drone striking weddings? How about drone striking the funerals for people who died at the weddings? Can we stop propping up dictators for money? How about funding the militarization of the police? No? Too far? How about honoring the 300+ treaties the US has unilaterally broken? No. Is that a “perfectionist” demand too?
To think that voting is the least powerful of Democratic expression is (I believe to be) an absurd statement. Local elections matter. Country elections matter. You’re not changing the system from the outside, a system that’s ran ~250 years
Yeah, and guess what. For 250 years it’s been a genocidal, mass murdering, torturing, enslaving, white supremacist spreader of lies and violence. You absolutely ARE changing a system from the outside that’s run for 250 years. That’s LITERALLY how liberal democracies emerged from monarchies. It’s how the US and its European empire collaborators have made every change in government around the world. Not through voting. You want to know what voting got us after 250 years? The largest most violent psychotic military in the world committing acts of genocide, mass war crimes, and mass crimes against humanity for literally 2 fucking centuries and absolutely ZERO justice for any of it. From the genocide of indigenous people to dropping over 2.5 million pounds of ordinance on Laos when we weren’t even at war with them, to bombing literally every structure in Korea north of the 38th parallel and then dropping so much napalm that people needed to live in caves to torturing prisoners all over the world in CIA black sites to funding, arming, and providing logistics support for the genocide of Palestinians. That’s voting for you.
The only change to the U.S. system so that the least amount of people die should have come from within.
It will. But it won’t come from voting.
Also, If they’re all fascists, and we literally have a choice between the fascist who at least has a backing party history of social and economic growth vs one whose going to try to become a defacto ruler; the choice should have been obvious.
The choice should be obvious, but apparently it’s not. You don’t fucking support the fascists who are willing to take up the PR role of “good cop”. If you’re in the precinct, and there’s a good cop and a bad cop interrogating you, you don’t side with the good cop, no matter how he bandages your wounds or keeps you well fed, or even gets some help for your family.
Then we are ultimately fucked. Corporate internet is programming masses due to being absolutely unregulated.
No. It’s not. That’s white supremacy. You’re making a fundamental error in attribution. The problem is the EuroCentric white supremacist capitalist patriarchy. Everything else stems from the rotten core. The propaganda. The distractions. The infighting. All of it. There is only one way out and that is to band together and fight ALL of the fascists, not spend our energy making alliances with the good cop.
There’s no change, no movement without leadership and organization. Between the 2 parties, the better leadership comes from the Democratic Party
Oh come on. You can’t be serious right now! ALL of the evidence is against this claim. The Democrats have NO fucking effective leadership. They spent 40 years of leadership not codifying Roe into law so they could campaign on it. They keep nominating candidates that have been proven to lose. They rat fuck their own people. They believe there should be a strong Republican party. They are millionaires, they work for billionaires, and they have achieved so precious little, and nearly everything they have achieved has been structured to enrich the white supremacist genocidal psychotic capitalist patriarchy. Not ONCE have the Democrats stopped the mass killings. Not ONCE have the Democrats dropped the prison or parole population. Not ONCE have the Democrats reduced the funding to the military. They do not have better leadership. They have better PR for people like you.
Until a 3rd party finds leadership, finds the organization to make the push for change, then they are it. Hopefully the future has that
You don’t get it. The Ds and Rs collaborate. They eat dinner together. They vacation together. Their kids go to same schools. They studied with the same professor. They rape people at the same island. They get their drugs from the same sources. They take bribes from the same brokers. They literally co-own the organization that runs televised debates. They work together to stop every possible third party. It’s not a question of 3rd party leadership, it’s a question of fascist dominance. You don’t vote fascists out of office. It’s never worked.
but the past election was between what we’re seeing now and what could have been.
Kamala had no plan to prevent any of this. If she had won, the BEST case scenario is that it would have delayed this chaos by 4 years. But the reality is that by the end of 2028, the economy will be destroyed regardless of who is in office. And the chaos would be on us anyway. Maybe Kamala would have fully invaded Venezuela or Iran in her first year. I have no doubt that ICE would have gotten the same funding (Kamala: “Don’t come.”). I do have doubts that they would be as openly brutal as they’re being now. But we don’t actually know. Kamala was no friend of immigrants and I could easily see her enforcing brutally. Especially since Tom Homan, the White House Border Czar, was an OBAMA appointee. (See how it’s bi-partisan).
No. The past election was not between what we’re seeing now and what could have been. It was between a small portion of what we’re seeing now and a different expression of the same fundamental contradictions. The country is still a psychotic white supremacist misogynist racist patriarchal shit hole. Maybe Kamala’s alternate universe would have seen Proud Boys and Bugaloo and Oathkeepers activate further and drive the same or worse chaos than we’re seeing now.
You gotta open your scope up. It’s not enough to want nicer rhetoric or gentler policing. It’s not. The Ds and the Rs are equally bloodthirsty on the global stage. They’re equally extractive. They’re equally rapacious. They administer the same system and that system does the same things regardless of who is in office. Again, I’ll point you to the list of 7 countries (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan) the GWB administration listed as targets for invasion and how Obama participated in continuity of that program. I’ll point you to Ruth Bader Ginsberg writing the majority opinion for the Supreme Court that US’s fundamental claim of existence stems from the Doctrine of Discovery - a religious document from the Catholic pope that justified rape, genocide, and enslavement of anyone that wasn’t European anywhere in the world.
Obama kept Gitmo open. Biden kept the genocide in Gaza going. They all increased the military budget. They all increased police budgets. They all imprisoned whistleblowers. They all assassinated resistance organizers in South America. They all trained terrorists in West Asia and in South America. They all brutalized indigenous people here at home. They all poisoned the Earth irreparably. They all forced their trading partners in subjugation. They all protected massive criminals. They all spread lies. They all militarized the domestic police to prepare for “disturbances”. They literally created the conditions that we find ourselves in. They all KNEW IT too. They literally talked about Trump being bad, and we watched them do absolutely fucking nothing about it except blame voters for failing to vote enough.
Wake up, Mort. Shed the lie. The good cop is not here to help you. The good cop will not make it better.
I don’t disagree that those things have happened, exist, and are bad, but you again seem to think that change comes from a grassroots movement to tear the whole system down. We are wayyyyyyyy past that. This isn’t 18th century Europe. We have satellites in space that can connect to anywhere in the world in milliseconds. Without a full destructive reset, there is no tearing the system down. It has to change from within and it has to change over time.
Oh come on. You can’t be serious right now! ALL of the evidence is against this claim.
Who are you even comparing the Democrats to? Again… a 2 party system… So if we have to pick one, which yeah we fucking do because we are the minority voice, yeah I’m picking the one that’s not going to ship my friends to camps and try to become a dictator. That’s the comparison. It starts there and stops there until a 3rd party puts their hat in and uses the law to fight Corporations.
Civil Rights were put into law by Democrats. (HUGE grassroots movement from the civil rights leaders of the time, but it’s the politicians who codified it so that we have what we have today)
LGBTQ+ Rights? Democrats.
Healthcare? Democrats.
Social Security and Social Services? Democrats.
Technological security and advances? Democrats.
The U.S. sees the most jobs under Democrats.
Just give me a quick list of what Republicans have done for America when they are in power. Seriously, you keep railing on America and Democrats, you keep saying that both parties are the same. Give me a rundown of all the good things Republicans have done for Americans when they are in power.
I will legitimately bet you can’t. Maybe Roosevelt, but hell that was a long time ago wasn’t it? Where’s the party gone since then?
Kamala had no plan to prevent any of this. If she had won, the BEST case scenario is that it would have delayed this chaos by 4 years.
And maybe we could have had some progressive policies as well too which would have been nice. A few less deaths. Again, I just don’t know how you’re not comparing this to the Republicans. Like, like it or not, American is a 2 party system and to say that Democrats and Republicans are the same is completely missing all the progress Democrats have done. and how much destruction Republicans have done and/or tried to reverse.
We don’t know what ICE would have been like under Kamala, but I sure hope it would have had less actual Nazis and less actual white supremists leading them. I’d like to think that we’d have the Jan 6th people still held accountable. A lot less pardons of real criminal fraudsters. Yeah, it’s really hard to say what the U.S. would have been like under Kamala.
It’s not a question of 3rd party leadership, it’s a question of fascist dominance.
We can’t have a 3rd party leadership.
We can’t have Democratic leadership.
We can’t have Republicans leadership.
All we can have is fascist dominance.
If that’s is to be true, then why not try to pick the fascist dominance that’s going to do the least harm? A non-choice is always a choice for the worse of the two fascists - there’s no getting around that. The people who want the fascist that will do the least harm votes so, and the people who want the fascist to the do the most harm votes so, and it’s the people who don’t vote that unintentionally give the fascist who wants to do the most harm an edge/advantage. You may dance around it morally all you want.
On a sidenote, shoutout to both Biden, Obama, and a number of other Democrats for not being in the Epstein files. We all knew Clinton would be, that sleezy fuck, but I haven’t seen a single comment defending him - it’s all just “burn em all” which is cool.
They literally talked about Trump being bad, and we watched them do absolutely fucking nothing about it except blame voters for failing to vote enough.
Yeah, that does suck. Difficult to put myself in their shoes in this situation. The U.S. was a powder keg for J6 - psyops in full effect. The next 4 years should have been preparing for the worst. With how strong of an influence DJT and the psyops had on Americans, would arresting DJT and more been seen as a political power play and caused a civil war then? Would it have had been better for the Democrats to try to show America who DJT really is and have them choose, to get a room temperature of the U.S., then prosecute him? They were telling us all along: Hey, this dude is a real POS. Hey, here’s Project 2025 that he’s going to put into place if he becomes President. Hey, this dude has strong ties with known Pedophile Jeffery Epstein.
The fact that all of this was out in the open and many states were still Red shows just how effective the psyops was to begin with and how entrenched a real [bad] fascist opposition had become. Now that things are running it’s course, the Epstein files are being released. We are seeing how DJT is dismantling every aspect of traditional America (from Social Systems to International Support to Education). Now that we’re seeing Project 2025 put into action, there are folx who are changing their tune. Is them not liking DJT going to stop bombings, prison slavery, or genocide? No, but we’re a long ways off from doing that now. America is one step forward and 2 steps back because of division politics.
I can’t tell if you’re Anti-America or Anti-Humanity. There’s no country the size of the U.S that is any better and arguably they’re all much worse and have been for a lot longer.
All the things about bombings and collusion are true, but you’re not changing it from the outside. The civil rights movement had leaders and organization and from it came change. If you want to see the same change, then that’s how it has to happen: Leadership and Organization. At that point you either join in as a 3rd party to fight the system politically or you fight the system physically. Politically has the best chance to promote change. Physically has the best chance to be dominated by a separate, and worse fascist regime.
What practical solutions do you have outside educating people of the flaws of the system?
you […] think that change comes from a grassroots movement to tear the whole system down. We are wayyyyyyyy past that. This isn’t 18th century Europe. We have satellites in space […] Without a full destructive reset, there is no tearing the system down. It has to change from within and it has to change over time.
This is a hypothesis without any analysis. There is no logical reason to believe that satellites make revolutionary change impossible.
Between the 2 parties, the better leadership comes from the Democratic Party
Oh come on. You can’t be serious right now! ALL of the evidence is against this claim.
Who are you even comparing the Democrats to?
Republicans are clearly better at leadership. They know how to use power, execute their plans, understand the threats ahead of time. Democrats have good PR, but they suck at leadership. Except when it comes to preventing any move towards the political left. Then they’re suddenly the most cunning, intelligent operators in the country.
a 2 party system… So if we have to pick one […] I’m picking the one that’s not going to ship my friends to camps and try to become a dictator. […] It starts there and stops there until a 3rd party puts their hat in and uses the law to fight Corporations.
This is the fundamental problem. Democrats increased funding to ICE, increased the use of solitary confinement (internationally recognized as torture) on immigrants, including children. Solitary confinements went up under Biden/Harris. You’re still talking about good cop/bad cop, though. The good cop says “Hey, sorry about my partner. Listen, I won’t ship your friends to camps and won’t act like a dictator. You can trust me.” But the good cop never stops the bad cop. Why? Because there isn’t a two party system in reality. There is a one party system with a good cop and a bad cop. Do you know why, despite 250 years of this country, a third party has never been viable. Why a third party has never used the law to fight Corporations? Because the “2 parties” literally collaborate to prevent it. They are friends. They break bread together. They have reasonable conversations with each other. They send each other Christmas gifts. They donate to each others campaigns. Stop basing your entire argument around this idea that the 2 party system is legitimate. It’s not. It’s a totally illegitimate, undemocratic, dictatorial system by which the elite and ultra-rich run the country.
[List of Democrat achievements]
These are called concessions. This is literally the job of the Democrat party. They are the Good Cop. The Bad Cop is not allowed to give you a donut (most of the time) because it breaks the effectiveness of the psychological arrangement. The Good Cop gives you a donut and a coffee and then turns around and expenses it back to the precinct. Because the concessions are part of the process of managing the population. This is why EVERY time fascism has emerged it’s emerged from a liberal democracy, and why every single time a social democrat in South America or Africa made some progress during economic high times, the progress was always rolled back by the right wing in economic lean times. Because the function of the Good Cop is to get you to legitimize the system, to believe there is nothing outside the options provided, and that the Good Cop is worth fighting for and sacrificing yourself for.
give me a quick list of what Republicans have done for America when they are in power
- Ended acid rain with cap and trade (G HW Bush)
- The Americans With Disabilities Act (G HW Bush)
- The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (G W Bush)
- The EPA (Nixon)
But you’re still missing the point even with these things. Even Trump had Operation Warp Speed. Why did Trump do that? Because the conditions in the country effectively forced him to. The government had to do something. That’s exactly how civil rights legislation got passed. Black people, not just MLK’s peaceful protestors, but the Black Panthers and other movements, created conditions that the government had to respond to. It’s not Democratic leadership that did those things. It was grassroots threats to legitimately disrupt the entire country. It’s always been this way. The 8-hour work day was won with general strikes that shut the country down. You don’t win by voting. You win by fighting. History has shown us this over and over and over again.
But that’s STILL not the point. Republicans do things that make their voters think they support what the voters support. Democrats do things that make their voters think they support what the voters support. When the Rs raise taxes, they do it quietly and when they cut taxes they do it loudly. The Democrats are the opposite. Why? Because Republican voters want lower taxes and Democrat voters want more social services. The two parties cannot significantly cross over this boundary because they would lose their voters. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to see, but if Republicans increased taxes to pay for social services they would LOSE. And if the Democrats cut social services to increase corporate profits, they would LOSE.
And yet, corporate profits are better under Democrats! Shocker, right? The Democrats working for the corporations?! People point at the ACA and say “Look at how the Democrats got more people access to health care” ignoring the fact that they easily could have extended Medicaid. It would have been cheaper. It would have helped more people. It would have been easier. But it wouldn’t have created profits for insurance companies.
Both parties are driven by the maintenance and expansion of global capitalism and they only give to the people as a concession
Think about it. Let’s say you have one group. Everyone in the group want the same things: world dominance, fascistic control over the people, unconscionable wealth for them and the elite. That one group has one brand. They go and get people to vote for them, but they make the voters lives worse. What happens? Eventually the people throw them out. Now they can’t achieve their goals.
Take that same group, but they form two brands. One just openly does what they want, pandering to a subset of the population. The rest of the population gets angry. They want someone else. So the same group deploys B team. B teams says “we’re here to help” and then continues to maintain and expand global capitalism, continues to execute world domination plans, continues mass incarceration, continues increase super profits for the ultra wealth. Now the people are upset with B team. What happens? A team comes back in on a winning message and continues the slaughter, the slavery, and the extraction.
That’s what is happening here.
We don’t know what ICE would have been like under Kamala, but I sure hope it would have had less actual Nazis and less actual white supremists leading them
Again. Tom Homan was an Obama appointee. And the US vetoed the UN resolution condemning the glorification of Nazis under Obama and under Biden.
Operation Paperclip, under Harry Truman (D), collaborated with the Vatican to save 10k Nazis from justice and relocated them throughout South America, giving them money, property, jobs, government protection, etc.
All we can have is fascist dominance.
If that’s is to be true, then why not try to pick the fascist dominance that’s going to do the least harm?
Wow. I mean, if this is your position, you’re well and truly gone. You support the fascists that give you and your friends the donuts. Sure they put toddlers in solitary. Sure they sodomize septuagenarians with bayonets. Sure they train death squads that kill entire villages. But you and your friends got a little more comfortable and honestly isn’t that progress?
With how strong of an influence DJT and the psyops had on Americans, would arresting DJT and more been seen as a political power play and caused a civil war then
Oh man, wouldn’t want to have open conflict! That would be terrible. Better to just let a fascist take over without any resistance. Listen to yourself. No one in their right mind thinks like that. They’re all on the same fucking team is why they did it.
The fact that all of this was out in the open and many states were still Red shows just how effective the psyops was to begin with and how entrenched a real [bad] fascist opposition had become
SMDH - no. America was not corrupted by psyops. This is who America is and has been from the beginning. The country was built on human trafficking. Thomas Jefferson was a pedophile serial rapist. The pilgrims prayed thanksgiving after every time they slaughtered an entire Indian village, including children and elderly. We have people living today who participated in lynchings and are upset that black people have their own universities. It’s not a psyop. It’s America.
No, but we’re a long ways off from doing that now. America is one step forward and 2 steps back because of division politics.
Again, completely wrong on the misattribution. The reason for prison slavery is not because of division politics. It’s because it’s a bipartisan consensus. Same with prison slavery. Same with torturing people at the border. Same with spying on Americans. Same with bombing anyone and everyone in the Global South. Bi-partisan consensus. Get it through your head. Look at the voting records. Look at the historical records. Look at the death records. Look at the budget numbers. 70-year bi-partisan consensus It has nothing to do with division and everything to do with unity.
There’s no country the size of the U.S that is any better and arguably they’re all much worse and have been for a lot longer.
Just go research prisons and parole around the world. Compare with America. It’s a hellscape here.
What practical solutions do you have outside educating people of the flaws of the system?
Use voting only to choose which enemy you’d rather fight
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They want to be comforted that the camps will contain the people they want them to not that there are no camps.
I mean, doesn’t this work exactly in reverse for the left?
Only if you are completely uninformed about what the left stands for. Or a moron that thinks that fema camps or vaccinations are in any way comparable to ICE disappearing and killing people at will.
I remember calls from the left to round up unvaccinated “plague rats”, having to present proof of vaccination to eat at restaurants, and eventually a vaccine mandate. A federal law requiring covid vaccination for the right to have a job. A new class of illegal person was created during covid.
Oh the horror of getting a poke!
Moron.
We are 6 years from covid with billions of vaccines distributed and your dumb ass is still upset about getting a shot. All because you deluded yourself into thinking that vaccination was dangerous.
No, I’m bothered that we couldn’t talk about natural immunity, something that was understood and taken for granted for hundreds of years prior to covid. We couldn’t talk about the origins of the virus, and we couldn’t talk about who was actually at risk and how we could respond to address that. I’m bothered that people like you thought it was ok to force people to get vaccinated or effectively be removed from society regardless of the actual risk/ benefit associated with it. People like you got the vaccine and then when it didn’t work as well as we were told it would, started to find scape goats. Thankfully the supreme court finally stepped in, otherwise who knows what big pharma could have done to society. And you would have been perfectly fine with it. Talk about fascism, how about when pharmaceutical companies collaborate with the government to force people to take their product, otherwise they cannot participate in society? Hypocrite. No moral or intellectual integrity, only justification and mental gymnastics to support your team. People like you make me sick, and lemmy is full of them.
Again, deluded moron.
Your screed is that of a petulant child who is afraid of an owie.
Murdering people in the streets is in no way comparable to getting a poke to avoid spreading a disease.
You have a full blown meltdown over what’s effectively a flu shot. I’m sure you also cry over people using LED lightbulbs.
It’s actually not even about the vaccine, but the fact that people were about to lose their jobs over it, and for what? The science didn’t support it, but zealots like you pushed it, wanted the blood of the heretics standing up to the official narratives that didn’t logically make sense. And now you downplay it while exaggerating and distorting narratives about murder in the streets.
