You would be surprised about the capabilities we had in 1970-80s for spying, with way way less technology than what we have today. At this point I think privacy is just a myth, we can literally use light to listen on people by having it bounce off of their windows and interpreting it back as sound. As a side note, rich people do use windows with a vibrating feature exactly to block this old method. There’s literally very little you can do if you are targeted by the government. (Except leaving the country, if possible)
This is the cop in your head to kill. State surveillance capabilities are limited. While in theory it’s difficult to block targetted surveillance the key is to avoid being targetted by blending in.
James Micken’s model of mosad and not mossad threats apply. If a state turns its gaze on you, you will lose. However passive dragnet methods to try and decide who to turn the eye of Sauron on can be hidden from.
Even crazier is that Wi-Fi sensing has been around since around 2008. The wild part is how much more they can do with it now. With AI, they can use Wi-Fi signals to track movement, map out rooms, and even detect body positions in real time. It’s not literally seeing through walls, but it’s getting pretty damn close.
Yeah this is why I’ve long suspected this is the reason Google doesn’t let you shut off Bluetooth or wifi permanently easily anymore. Both resemble by default. And I think WiFi even stays on on android when you have it off to facilitate a feature to detect other networks or something.
You also are not able to run your own hardware, you must use theirs. This is why I canceled Xfinity on the same day they installed it, after discovering this.
What do you mean by their hardware? I have Xfinity (it’s the only option for Internet in my apartment complex) and I have my own modem and router. I’ve never used Xfinity’s equipment.
If you’re willing to fortify your network in terms of security, I highly recommend building yourself a WiFi router or just buying a highly customizable one like MikroTik or alternatives as such. I think its easily the best defense for such cases.
Totally agree - if you buy the latest TP link (or whateverm model) rather than build your own, you are handing someone else your credentials. Save that old PC and repurpose it as a router
Any recs for the best choice for buying a home router for someone who doesn’t have the knowledge to build or configure one? I’m smart enough to change the admin password and rename the default network/setup a new password, but that’s about it. Mine just stopped getting security updates, plus it’s a Netgear. I know no one is really trustworthy anymore, but I know some brands are more sketchy than others.
The one thing I am certain of is I will not go with tp link ever again. All the add ins they charge monthly for are free with the right router. Plus I’ve never gotten an update to my WiFi 6 tplink . Wait … didn’t open WRT make their own router ? ? That is the one I’d go for because they load the open source software on it ready for you to configure. I’d imagine this is better than many other options.
Only if they first learn and train with you in known rooms. This one is much more useful for things like “which room is a moving entity in” like your dog … Rather than letting anything useful out.
If you aim a laser on a window it can detect the vibrations of sound hitting it. Pretty much the same as placing your ear up against it, except that a laser can do it from far, far away. You can counter this by installing devices on the windows that actively vibrate them, drowning out the sound.
What’s interesting with this technique is the sideways applications. I’ve heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect. Also, apparently you can actually figure out what someone is typing just from the audio. So with just audio you can eventually figure out their computer passwords.
I’ve heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect.
Anything light/thin enough to resonate at vocal frequencies that can reflect a laser (without altering polarization) will work.
I do remember an experiment, using a chip bag, where university researchers were able to extract audio from a video of a chip bag. I believe they were mapping the intensity of the various specular highlights on the bag and playing the audible frequencies. It was muddied and choppy but intelligible.
Even further, your location and time of recording can be roughly estimated based on audio recordings. It’s called Electrical Network Frequency analysis. I forget the specifics, but it had something to do with the frequency change of the power grid (the hum of which can be picked up in some audio recordings, or inadvertently captured as noise from the audio equipment). They can take the recording, determine how the frequency shifted during the recording (corresponding to grid conditions at the time of recording) and compare them to historical data from various utility monitoring stations looking for matches. wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_network_frequency_analysis
You would be surprised about the capabilities we had in 1970-80s for spying, with way way less technology than what we have today. At this point I think privacy is just a myth, we can literally use light to listen on people by having it bounce off of their windows and interpreting it back as sound. As a side note, rich people do use windows with a vibrating feature exactly to block this old method. There’s literally very little you can do if you are targeted by the government. (Except leaving the country, if possible)
This is the cop in your head to kill. State surveillance capabilities are limited. While in theory it’s difficult to block targetted surveillance the key is to avoid being targetted by blending in.
James Micken’s model of mosad and not mossad threats apply. If a state turns its gaze on you, you will lose. However passive dragnet methods to try and decide who to turn the eye of Sauron on can be hidden from.
Step by step. Maybe true privacy is a myth, but every step closer is a win so take them.
They can track you using your wifi router now, the shit is crazy
Even crazier is that Wi-Fi sensing has been around since around 2008. The wild part is how much more they can do with it now. With AI, they can use Wi-Fi signals to track movement, map out rooms, and even detect body positions in real time. It’s not literally seeing through walls, but it’s getting pretty damn close.
Yeah this is why I’ve long suspected this is the reason Google doesn’t let you shut off Bluetooth or wifi permanently easily anymore. Both resemble by default. And I think WiFi even stays on on android when you have it off to facilitate a feature to detect other networks or something.
Xfinity includes it in their new Wifi router and presents it as a feature:
https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion
You also are not able to run your own hardware, you must use theirs. This is why I canceled Xfinity on the same day they installed it, after discovering this.
What do you mean by their hardware? I have Xfinity (it’s the only option for Internet in my apartment complex) and I have my own modem and router. I’ve never used Xfinity’s equipment.
Fuck everything about that. Literal ISP spyware!
If you’re willing to fortify your network in terms of security, I highly recommend building yourself a WiFi router or just buying a highly customizable one like MikroTik or alternatives as such. I think its easily the best defense for such cases.
Or don’t use wi-fi at all and stick with Ethernet.
Totally agree - if you buy the latest TP link (or whateverm model) rather than build your own, you are handing someone else your credentials. Save that old PC and repurpose it as a router
Any recs for the best choice for buying a home router for someone who doesn’t have the knowledge to build or configure one? I’m smart enough to change the admin password and rename the default network/setup a new password, but that’s about it. Mine just stopped getting security updates, plus it’s a Netgear. I know no one is really trustworthy anymore, but I know some brands are more sketchy than others.
The one thing I am certain of is I will not go with tp link ever again. All the add ins they charge monthly for are free with the right router. Plus I’ve never gotten an update to my WiFi 6 tplink . Wait … didn’t open WRT make their own router ? ? That is the one I’d go for because they load the open source software on it ready for you to configure. I’d imagine this is better than many other options.
I’m a network engineer, and I’ve built it 🤣
You’ve worked on MikroTik? If so, my warmest congratulations, my absolutely favorite piece of technology in my home. 🙇
I have but I’m not using mikrotik, I’m using opnsense
Why is that if I may ask? I mean, opnsense is indeed more versatile from what I can see.
Only if they first learn and train with you in known rooms. This one is much more useful for things like “which room is a moving entity in” like your dog … Rather than letting anything useful out.
More info on the light thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone
First to use, as far as I remember, were the Soviets in Cuba, gathering intelligence from US diplomats.
“intelligence from US” good luck with that
You got a genuine nose exhale from me with that.
Thanks!
If you aim a laser on a window it can detect the vibrations of sound hitting it. Pretty much the same as placing your ear up against it, except that a laser can do it from far, far away. You can counter this by installing devices on the windows that actively vibrate them, drowning out the sound.
What’s interesting with this technique is the sideways applications. I’ve heard you can use a chip bag to the same effect. Also, apparently you can actually figure out what someone is typing just from the audio. So with just audio you can eventually figure out their computer passwords.
It’s also possible to see what’s on a monitor’s display through processing the EM emissions called Van Eck phreaking.
There’s an entire spectrum of similar attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_(codename)
Anything light/thin enough to resonate at vocal frequencies that can reflect a laser (without altering polarization) will work.
I do remember an experiment, using a chip bag, where university researchers were able to extract audio from a video of a chip bag. I believe they were mapping the intensity of the various specular highlights on the bag and playing the audible frequencies. It was muddied and choppy but intelligible.
Even further, your location and time of recording can be roughly estimated based on audio recordings. It’s called Electrical Network Frequency analysis. I forget the specifics, but it had something to do with the frequency change of the power grid (the hum of which can be picked up in some audio recordings, or inadvertently captured as noise from the audio equipment). They can take the recording, determine how the frequency shifted during the recording (corresponding to grid conditions at the time of recording) and compare them to historical data from various utility monitoring stations looking for matches. wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_network_frequency_analysis
I see what you did there.
It’s nice to find someone on the same wavelength :P
I just hope this sort of post won’t be happening with any frequency.
I didn’t realize this was such a polarizing topic, I’ll have to reflect on that.
Any more info on the “vibrating windows for rich people” actually for sale or being actively used on windows? Or is that theoretical?
It is not theoretical and there are companies doing the custom installation on demand.
There is quite a bit of public info on qwant and other search engines as well: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003682X20309762
Here is a device you can buy yourself, but this is on the lower end: https://creationnetworks.net/products/cambridge-sound-ds2530-70v-window-door-wall-masker-for-scif-secure-rooms-w-vol-control-retractable-cord-0815-900
Here is what one of the laser microphones look like, and you can actually even find and buy them (although not all countries permit it, but you can still buy them with a little bit of research :) https://pki-electronic.com/products/audio-surveillance-equipment/laser-microphone
Also an example of how its done to track your keystrokes (article paywall bypass included): https://archive.is/20251103180518/https://www.wired.com/story/infrared-laser-microphone-keystroke-surveillance/
Thanks for the very thorough response. Crazy that we’re all alive.
Here’s some dude that made a prototype of it for 30$
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiVi8AjG4OY