Blatant misrepresentation of both sides, why?
Let him have the Sudetenland, he will stop after it, it was his territory 100 years ago anyway…
Tankies only ask for comprise when they are fully mask on. Mask off they want Ukraine to crumble and crawl back under the Russian boot.
Anyone who thinks modern day russia has anything to do with socialism is a dipshit. But the majority of tankies online aren’t even in that camp. Most of them just don’t like the west. That’s all. There is no great philosophy behind their inhumanity. They hate the west and by that they love russia and china.
Driven by hate it’s not wonder they read so similar to Nazis.
Oh and they LOOOOOOOOOOOVE whataboutism.
They’ve correctly realized that the US is the greatest force for evil in the world today, then incorrectly extrapolated that to mean that anyone who opposes the US must be good. Bad people often hate each other. Hitler, who killed between 11 and 17 million civilians depending on your definition, abhorred Churchill, who killed a couple million civilians in the Bengal famine.
Whataboutism. I fucking called it. You ran into it. Amazing 😃
Ran into it? I was explaining their reasoning. Or are you taking the same stance in the opposite direction, that because Russia is bad the US must be good? I don’t think I could have been more clear in my analogy.
Explaining reasoning? That threatens the defense mechanism designed to keep outgroups out.
Maintaining zero comprehension is the point. You’re out here making comments designed to get brains thinking.
They’re the equivalent of MAGA.
MAGA hates democrats, leftists, liberals, and minorities and that drives their every thought and action. Trump can do no wrong even as modern day Hitler.
Tankies hate the west and that drives their every thought and action. Russia and China can do no wrong because they’re against the west.
Both are authoritarian and wish to imprison or even execute their enemies (literally threatening to eliminate an entire civilization while funding the genocide of another), eliminate speech they disagree with (NSPM-7), spread blatant propaganda constantly in an attempt to instill bias (similar to how Detroit just voted for Stevens after a deluge of Israel money funding attack ad after attack ad on every media source), and create indoctrination camps like the brown and red shirts to instill their preferred values in the upcoming generations (dismantling higher education, attempting to start their own “non-woke” universities).
Authoritarianism is the problem. We should be uncompromising in protecting all peoples. Whoever seeks to crush others is the enemy. The only thing intolerable are those who’s ideologies are rooted in intolerance. Socialism is anodyne to authoritarianism as it seeks to unite all peoples and distribute power amongst all members of society. The exact opposite of authoritarianism seeking to consolidate power in the few.
I often see both sides of this debste depicting their opposite side as much further away from what their positions actually are, from tankies assuming everyone else but them supports USA and isreali imperalism, from loosely speaking “libretarian leftists” saying that tankies uncodinationally support russia as if they were a bastion communism.
this seems to be case the case here
if anyone actually bother reading the positions of both sides they will know that’s wrong
“Compromise” stance is just a mask to look less bloodthirsty to outsiders. Tankies get even worse when dropping that mask.
Remember Operation Spiderweb? Russia retaliated by yet another attack on residential buildings and top comments for these news in .ml were “yeah, that’s what they get for their terroristic attacks on Russia”.
The only real compromise is to free the Russians from their oppressive regime and bring everyone supporting it to justice.
Agreed, certainly for Ukraine especially too.
Fine. We’ll kill all the Ukrainians but then use ancient Slavic witchcraft to bring them all back as zombies. Everyone’s happy!
Real history started in 2022 vibes in here. We blaming Russia for the Cuban missile crisis too?
I’m not taking the tankie position but how does Ukraine/Europe/NATO etc. expect to end this war? Do they really think Ukraine will retake the Donbas and Crimea? To me the compromise seems pragmatic and has nothing to do with supporting Russia.
EDIT: Ok just to be clear. There are three positions.
- Fight Russia and push them out of the Donbas. This would involve committing Western troops and declaring war on a nuclear power.
- Negotiate and let Putin take some territory. Given the war crimes and fascism shown by Russia, this would be catastrophic for the people who live there, but the daily slaughter would stop.
- Give enough aid to Ukraine that the fighting continues indefinitely but neither side wins. This is the current situation. Between 1 and 2 million casualties so far.
I’m sorry that none of these are great options but dismissing #2 comes off as incredibly callous and naive.
They tried option 2 in 2014. It got them invaded again. They’ve decided to try something different now, since they know option 2 doesn’t work.
They didn’t concede Crimea. They failed to get a security guarantee from NATO or the EU and now that would involve declaring war, so we are instead content to watch hundreds of thousands of them die. You need peace before you can get a security guarantee, and the only way to get peace is through some negotiation. Barring the aforementioned spontaneous collapse of Russia.
You need peace before you can get a security guarantee,
Which they had in 2015 and couldn’t get one
and the only way to get peace is through some negotiation.
Which they did in 2014 and still got invaded in 2022
Yes they get a security guarantee this time, obviously. It’s like arguing with an LLM
It’s like arguing with an LLM
Or perhaps it is because your position is untenable?
The peoblem with doscussing #2 is that it is predicated on this fantastical idea that Russia will just, what?, stop all actions abide by this decision and never push further? Everyone suddenly lives in peace? Lives stop being lost over it? Its a nice thought, but I cannot comprehend it being true. Perhaps it delays some more bloodshed for a short time, but thats rrally the best case scenario I see.
EDIT: Ok just to be clear. There are three positions.
There’s other options you’re ignoring:
.4: The Russian economy collapses due to the combination of sanctions, “kinetic sanctions” reducing foreign income, and the mono-focus on war-goods delivery causing large segments of the economy to be unable to produce or produce cost efficiently
.5: The various oligopolists and other power bases decide they’ve had enough of Putin bleeding them and want the good times back, Putain gets Gadaffi’ed
.6: Internal uprisings of some of the downtrodden colonies - prob not Chechnya again, but Far East, and Circassia etc, particularly given a lot of maimed and mentally impacted soldiers returning there
Now I don’t think the last one is very likely for a bunch of reasons, but the point is your options are way too narrow.
These all come off as wishful thinking and reminiscent of 2023 punditry. The Russian economy is fine because it’s a petrostate supported by BRICS. Even if we entertain them the time horizon is totally undefined. So we wait around while another million people die?
LOL. I think you’re the one stuck in 2023 not me
Fact: Russia’s refined petroleum production is the lowest it has been in 2 decades since it troughed post USSR breakdown
[(url)https://www.kyivpost.com/post/80189
Fact: Russia’s economy is struggling, although it still a distance from collapse, that’s the current trajectory
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/220766/economics/russias-economic-problems-2026/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/natashalindstaedt/2026/07/13/russias-economy-is-slowly-sinking/ https://www.economist.com/topics/russias-economy
Ok great so just more drones and another million or so casualties and they’ll be ready to surrender
You’re not a fan of reading comprehension, are you ? That’s just a double down on your “there are only 3 options” post and ignores the two posts you responded to.
Maybe there will be another million russian casualties before Putain gives up on his zerg rush and pulls out, or one of the scenarios happens that prompts a Russian withdrawal, but if Ukraine surrenders there will easily be that many Ukrainians slaughtered (we have Bucha as precedent before you scoff), so there’s no incentive for Ukraine to do anything other than fight until overwhelmed or a win. That’s the POINT of the cartoon.
I’m not ignoring the points about Russian weakness, I’m dismissing them. We’ve been hearing the “Russia is on the verge of collapse” narrative for years. I think it’s wishful thinking and refusing to engage the thought of negotiating because of a vacuous Hitler narrative is just prolonging the conflict. When something doesn’t work for years one looks for alternatives.
Here’s an article about how economic stagnation doesn’t necessarily mean military defeat with authoritarian regimes.
I’m not trying to disprove anything, just showing that counterpoints are available. Ultimately we have no idea about when Putin will decide to stop, or whether he will at all, and we don’t know how the economic implications will affect Russia’s warfighting ability because we can’t apply a democratic model to it. All we have is years of liberal optimists being wrong and a million dead.
The point of the cartoon is to show that negotiating is bad and I think that makes no sense unless you’re a capitalist arms manufacturer or an imperial revanchist.
We’ve been hearing the “Russia is on the verge of collapse” narrative for years.
If you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth ?
Russian propaganda have being doing variants of this dance for years with the intent to weaken the western resolve to stick to sanctions. It has invariably been Russian aligned sources that have pushed the “russia is about to collapse” as a strawman to then knock down.
The point of sanctions is to weaken Russian capability. It’s never been a position of the West that it will cause Russian economic collapse, although that is in fact now the direction of travel that has become apparent lately, it’s not something that is a goal (in fact the US went to a lot of trouble to hamstring Ukraine to try and prevent it in the Biden years).
Whether Russia will collapse economically is simply one of the many options you chose to ignore to further your narrative. It could, plausibly, happen, although it is not certain, but nor are any of the options you tabled.
What we do have very very clear evidence on, is that Russia (post USSR) breaks every treaty it makes with Ukraine, so the option of a negotiated peace has to be off the table as it is a near certainty they will break it (please don’t give me the battered spouse “this time it will be different” response).
Your grandparent if it was genetic:
“I wouldn’t take the German position, but how does England/France/Poland expect to end this war? Do they really think France will retake the Elsass and Lotharingia? To me, compromise seems pragmatic and has nothing to do with supporting Germany”
They win the same way any free people has ever resisted domination by tyrants. By fighting.
I find the comparisons between Putin’s Russia and Hitler’s Germany to be profoundly idiotic. If I need to lay out why then there’s no point even trying to argue because there’s a basic lack of understanding that needs to be overcome.
You realize saying “I’m right and you’re wrong, and if you don’t know why I’m not going to tell you,” comes across as extremely childish, right?
Are you making the argument that Russia isn’t engaging in ethnic cleansing? Or that they don’t have the same alliances as Germany did? What precisely are you separating between the 2 actions taken by powerful aggressors?
“Powerful aggressors” is the issue. If you think Germany in 1939 is the same thing as Russia in 2023 then I have a bridge to sell you. You realize Germany defeated continental Europe and then invaded half of Russia, right? Putin’s military couldn’t hold Kharkiv. Idealogical analogies are great until they run into material reality.
No hes right lmao. There is no comparison to be made.
Why? Where does the analogy fall apart, specifically? Is there no comparison because they are literally just different countries and the year is different?
Does putin have concentration camps set up where Ukrainians are used as slave labor and then liquidated and then sent up a chimney?
Or was he responding to a buildup of NATO forces along the border and Ukraine killing ethnic Russians within Ukraine?
The allies in WW2 didn’t fight because Hitler was putting people in concentration camps.
are those ghosts of killed russians within Ukraine in the room right now?
Is that what you find? Thank you for your wise judgment, professor “not taking the tankie position, but,” no comparisons to be made, one country is a nationalist dictatorship hellbent on revanchist conquest and ethnic cleansing, the other is Germany.
The motives or the ideology are not the point. There are dozens of these and none of them are Nazi Germany. Is Argentina in 1982 Germany? Is Indonesia in 1975 Germany? Why not? Same reason as Ukraine: material circumstances dictate what a country is able to do. If you can’t hold Kharkiv you’re not in the same category as the Wehrmacht. I don’t care what a fascist you are, you’re not going to be able to conquer Europe and Ursula von der Leyen is not Neville Chamberlain. The Hitler comparison is literally the laziest analogy you can make.
I disagree that there are no other options.
At the end of a war either one or botb sides need to sell their people that they won.
Example:
Ukraine gets their territory back and joins the eu, including an European army. -> they can sell this as a win
Ukraine promises to not jointhe nato for atleast 20 years Russions in dombass and crimera get special rights, like living their without a Ukrainian passport, more rights for these local governments (like catalonia in Spain) -> Russia can sell this as a win
My point is officially giving dombass and crimera to russia is not a compromise as it was their goal before the war but there are compromises that both sides can save face with. In qhose favor these compromises fall depends on who would be more willing to continue the war if their demands are not met
Why would Putin give up the territory he took? I don’t think there are realistic compromises that don’t involve Ukrainian territorial concessions.
War costs money. This war will go on as long as money is poured into it.
Once the West stops supporting Ukraine it will fall. Once Russia runs out of money and China drops them they will fall.
Politically they can’t stop it.
Ukraine wants back their stolen territory and Russia doesn’t want to lose a war. There’s no compromise.
The same with the war in Israel.
This war goes on as long as money is poured into it. Israel is supported by the West and Gaza is supported by almost everyone including the West because of misused aid money.
Ok and how is this helpful? You’re basically saying that permanent war is inevitable and trying to attain even a temporary peace is pointless. You’re surrendering to the capitalist ruling class and their military industrial complex.
No I am all in for peace.
However the best option of all war mongering parties just stopping and everybody shaking hands is sadly not realistic.
What I am telling you that the solution is most likely solved by a financial situation and not really on the direct conflict politics.
And how exactly does a financial situation solve this? Everybody is making money right now.
Holy strawman lmfao
So what is your stance on the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
It’s fucked up, Russia shouldn’t have done it. There – are you happy about me passing your 2FA that deems me worthy?
What’s your stance about Israel?
Actually, yeah
And the state of Israel is yet another product of European colonialism that shouldn’t exist, and the region (like most of the world) would have been better off if European colonial powers had stuck to killing each other over sacrament wafers instead of exporting their insanity to the rest of the globe
❤️
Edit: I’m a communist and I’d never suggest a compromise between an invaded nation and its oppressors. That’s madness.
Idk about some weirdos online but that goes for all of my communist friends and all of the online spaces that I frequent.
But I have to say that it leaves a sour taste in my mouth to see how Ukraine gets a disproportionate amount of support online.
It makes me think that certain people only want to maintain the western world order, to which Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a threat.
Every time I see a website, a company or what have you only hoist Ukrainian flags in solidarity, I cringe inside.
Never visit .ml
I’ve visited and, again – holy strawman. They’re more nuanced in their takes than what ppl give them credit for.
Look at world news. Every single attack by Ukraine on civilians is mentioned with an article. Good, you should highlight war crimes.
You won’t find the same for Russian war crimes or targeting of civilians. Instead, it’s “Russia liberates” and “Russia chastised Ukraine”.
@djieste does’t fuck around
I feel famous
Haven’t Ukrainian socialists been burned alive in Odessa’s union building? So leftists could care less for either side.
There were some far-right Russian nationalists that colluded with police and shot pro-Ukraine marchers in 2014, before barricading themselves in the Union House building, and started shooting and throwing Molotovs at protestors, and lit themselves on fire. Are you thinking of those proto-Ztards?
To be fair, diehard USSR fans were usually among most active separatists, of course self-proclaimed socialists. It’s just that Russian idea of socialism is rather “ice cream was tasty, and kielbasa costed 3 kopecks” nostalgia and not the cooperative workplace ownership or whatever (because USSR was never actually socialist).
Anything actually socialist was destroyed by the Western superpowers. Everything else was left to be pointed at as “See? It never works!”.
The person you’re responding to is a paid troll and has officially hit rock bottom
Man, I wish I could do such a laughably shit job and still get paid
While at least one of the fires seems to have been started by those outside the building, most seem to have been caused accidentally from inside.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes
TL;DR: Your propaganda is bad and you should feel bad.
‘They throw gays off roofs ass’ argument
Removed by mod
This is precisely how all the most evil people in history think: “if we can just kill all the people we don’t like, the world would be a better place”.
Nice 2 see someone still has common sense
