I recognize there is a massive anti incarnation argument (in the US). I agree with many of the points and reasons I’ve heard. That said, murderers, child molesters etcetera are still gonna exist to some degree no matter what. So, without incarnation, what are some options?
So, implement changes in society that curb those behaviors? I feel like it’s not that simple and some people are born fucked up. Just feels idealistic that people will just stop raping, killing and molesting if they also have access to some resources. How would you quantify
"Simply put, the better alternative to prison is to create and put people in social environments that don’t tolerate crime in the first place. " what does that look like in practice, if not prison/execution.
Thank you for the contribution so far.
Some people absolutely are born fucked up, but way, way more people are just born into fucked up situations and neglected until they explode.
It looks like early social intervention that helps people succeed without breaking the law. The reason American society is this fucked up is the fallacy that everyone is responsible for themselves. Absolutely none of the rich would be rich without extensive support given to them in every aspect of their lives.
Not to mention enough money to buy judges, and other privilege. Brock Turner.
Vibes based “feels like” over empirical data based (hard evidence). “It feels like bloodletting is a more effective cure for sepsis than intensive antibiotic treatment.” That’s how that sounds.
All the time you spend asking questions and disagreeing you could as well spend actually searching, reading, watching videos.
That’s not how a discussion works. Sure I could sit and do that by myself. I have done a good bit of looking into the topic. That’s why I posed the question in the first place. But the point of a thread here is to ask a question and discuss it. If you think you have an objectively correct solution, lay it out. You linked a singular BBC article about a sigular tiny population country (1/60th the size) with completely different social, systemic and economic issues than faced in the US. Is that all the empirical data you’re talking about? I’m just trying to have a talk about the subject. Typically part of a discussion includes opinions and how one feels about the topic. Again if you have hard data that provides an objective actionable solution please provide it.
Yeah, some people are just born fucked up, and putting them in prison to handle it is a bad way to handle them. What do I mean? Well, when people are born fucked up, it’s usually pretty obvious. A lot of the infamous mass shooters that come to mind, people knew. In some cases, they tried desperately to get somebody to help do something about it.
But our system (correctly, IMO) operates on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. That is, we have to wait for fucked up people to hurt somebody else before we can put them in prison. Better would be a system that addresses mental health concerns and anti-social personality issues that people around them could draw upon, rather than just relying on cops and courts.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that we could ever completely eliminate incarceration. We don’t live in a perfect world, after all. But getting rid of prisons is a good goal to aim for.
I think thats a fantastic answer, thanks.