This will in no way come back to “haunt” us…

It’s too bad they won’t allow funding to go towards development of just the software itself, separately from the moderation and other costs of maintaining Lemmy.ml. As it is, Lemmy is a tankie platform first and foremost, and only secondarily offered for use by the rest of the world. You can see this in the development philosophy even: like even Reddit offers a modmail, notification upon moderation events, and ability to see deleted posts (PieFed offers some of this too), though Lemmy offers strong rights to instance admins, and somewhat lessened ones for moderators, but significantly weaker privileges to mere users (who I guess they feel don’t deserve to be told upon e.g. being banned from an instance, and instead merely have to find out the hard way?).

Adding to this: a lot of the most heinous, truly “problematic” stuff ended up being demonstrably false accusations - like a feature may be opt-in, or at worst opt-out, but either of those is a far cry from being hard-coded as was claimed.

That said, the software truly is “opinionated”, pushing its own agenda even if you can opt-out of most of it - an instance admin still has to be wary of each new feature added, especially with the lack of transparency surrounding the announcements.

Although personally I think Lemmy is equally opinionated, just more in the sense of what features it decides not to implement at all.

Both platforms have their advantages, and it seems more important for an end-user to pick a good admin team that reflects their values more than picking a platform, especially if using a 3rd-party app than replaces the UI anyway. (Though secondary to that, I do think PieFed has the strongest edge, especially right now before the release of Lemmy 1.0.)

Of course it looks that way to you, since your instance already defederated from lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net and other toxic cesspits - see recent example (Lemmy.World’s statement and reasoning for defederation from Lemmy.org). The LW admin team does a lot of work to keep things this chill.:-)

To add to what Vicinus said, it’s like when people get divorced - it’s a breakdown of communication between instances, a means of last resort. Here is a recent example when your instance defederated from Lemmy.org:

due to lack of moderation on their side. This instance has open registrations, seemingly zero abuse prevention on signup, including not requiring emails. This leads to a small number of people constantly creating new disposable accounts for various types of abuse with zero consequences. Their admin is the CEO of an ad company, which surely doesn’t affect incentives. They do virtually zero moderation, allowing all these abusive accounts to rampantly harass other instances…

We, as well as other people, including at least one admin of another instance, have attempted to reach out to them about their lack of moderation, but we haven’t received any response at all. At this point there isn’t really anything left besides defederating them, which several other instances have already done as well.

Or here is the historical statement about defederation from Hexbear: https://lemmy.world/post/2498330, though those links are very old and probably not functional anymore.

It’s like when someone repeatedly sends you unsolicited spam, even after you beg and plead with them to stop, and so as a last resort you finally block them. Incels arguing against it claim that their right to speak should triumph over your right to not have to listen but… that is simply not true.

Including OP’s too:-). Except lemmy.ml, obviously.

Even running the co-founder himself away, which in retrospect should have been a sign of their enshittification.

(/s bc duh)

Now I want to go to a Li-ber-ary, can someone invent that so I can go to one?!:-P

But to young people, “Boomer” means “old person”. Millennials are Boomers, even GenZs are Boomers, everyone’s a Boomer now! (in the world where words don’t mean what they mean but rather how it makes someone “feel”, which ofc is subjective)

Careful - you are going to be liking Perl before you know it:-).

Half an hour ⁉️ You… might be over-doing it. The goal is to put it away neatly, not open up a hole in the spacetime continuum.

Nauwreigh does objectively sound awesome though 😎

Possibly either a respect for Halloween held by all those murderers, or officials covering up the actual date when things happened, the former seeming more likely.

Hrm… so Halloween is wholesome? :-P

Are you sure? Did you try counting the number of pieces of candy? I bet you got at least 6 to 7 pieces somewhere in there…

Yeah and as you have pointed out, the PieFed API is very new and not as mature yet as Lemmy’s, so there is value in waiting for it to advance while you work on other things like Svelte upgrades.

So long as you enjoy yourself in the doing, it’s all good 😊

I somewhat disagree: I used to use Facebook, then left that and joined Reddit ! whether I joined Reddit or not though, either way I was leaving Facebook) then left Reddit and joined Kbin, then left that when it imploded and joined Lemmy, then left that, and fortunately PieFed was coming up at the time. I view most social media as “bad” - at least for myself - and the interactions I was seeing on Lemmy were not worthwhile for me to remain. But if you enjoy it, that’s fine, I am just sharing my experiences.

And you asked “someone can just fork it and add the missing features”, which seems like a competition to me since you aren’t going to contribute to both Lemmy development (in Rust) and also PieFed (in Python): someone must make a choice where their time & efforts are going to be directed at.

Which if you choose Lemmy again is fine, but I am pointing out that it is in fact a choice being made. Hence I hoped to help inform that choice by pointing out some of the reasons to choose PieFed rather than Lemmy, which either way that ends up getting chosen will lead to increased efficiency and fewer regrets moving forward, with the cost having been counted in advance rather than discovered only much later on in the process.

Further, I would argue that the set of considerations is quite different for a mere user vs. someone thinking about actually contributing to development of a codebase. Even for an instance admin, I would hope that such a person actually would look at what is technically better than something else, before going to all that effort to set something up that will require much maintenance in the future. Of course, to each their own, I was just sharing my own thoughts on the subject.

That seems far too simplistic imho. Instance admins have done this for years and can tell you how quickly things fall behind: if you want to federate with any other instances (the entire point behind the federated model?), then you need to maintain compatibility. Fortunately Lemmy is fairly mature and far less likely to release groundbreaking changes than it did in the past.

But also, you have to learn to code in Rust, which even people who already know C++ seem to find very difficult, for a number of reasons including major lack of support by a standard library (such as C++ itself has in its STL), which in Rust is still fairly primitive iirc, forcing the user to build every tiny little thing from scratch, or use less well-written and tested code, possibly so poor as to negate the advantages of having chosen Rust over some other, more commonly useful language like C++.

And then you’d be doing all of that entirely on your own, and maintaining it in perpetuity. Don’t get me wrong, several people have done exactly that (Admiral Patrick, developer of the Tesseract front-end, comes to mind).

But all of that seems like it would be even slower, compared to PieFed releasing new features practically weekly? And also it is Python, which is a much easier language. And also you could work along with others, fixing bugs in your code that you did not spot, and vice versa. I’m not seeing the advantages there to what you are proposing: I mean yes obviously there are “advantages”, but relatively speaking I mean, they seem much smaller than if someone put the same amount of effort towards improving PieFed, which would then be shared and maintained world-wide even if you got sick or busy irl or something?

And even if you were right, that doing this with Lemmy would work out well, for how much longer would that remain true - six months? - before PieFed absolutely blows the set of features that Lemmy uses out of the water? Imagine social media that is actually fun to use, and where the computer automates the most common tasks so as to not require menial labor every hour of the day, as Lemmy does (I am speaking of the requirement for manual moderation efforts)? That much has already come to pass, to various degrees, in many ways on PieFed. e.g. in Lemmy you could search for every cross-posting across all instances wherever you can find them, then click on each one, and read through the comments, making sure to get the version of the community that is accessible from the instance you are on rather than follow a link taking you to a different one… but why do all that work, when PieFed provides it ready-made, instantly upon loading the post?

Starting with PieFed is starting ahead of Lemmy, in most ways (not all though: Lemmy’s search functionality is still way better, and reportedly about to get even better still by allowing limiting of search terms specifically to post titles separately from message contents).

Unless you just want to learn Rust for other reasons. 😁

It’s great to see you still posting on the Threadiverse! Okay so you’ve been doing it for awhile I guess but I’ve been sick myself so not staying up with things, anyway it’s still great to see!! 😜

You may want to think about it from the ground up: a lot of the need for Tesseract was due to things like the strict authoritian stance of the tankie devs - e.g. not providing a means to truly block all users from an instance, or not showing alternative image text, or not embedding video playbacks - forcing you to find creative solutions to that problem (note PieFed does all of those things mentioned, usually not as comprehensively implemented as well as Tesseract does it but at least to some degree, e.g. Peer tube and YouTube videos can embedd but not Loops ones). Maybe now Tesseract would not have to be an entire alternative UI front-end - especially when the development pace of PieFed is so rapid in comparison to Lemmy that would increase your difficulty of keeping up - but instead rather a “theme”, combined with changes to the underlying codebase that would affect all of the users of PieFed instead of only some of them? These devs I believe would be much more friendly and receptive to your ideas:-).

Although I am not a developer like you so too far away from the problem to see it anywhere close to clearly like you will, as you get into it, but wanted to throw out that oddball idea from left field in case it helps jar your thinking along creative lines. Remember to do six impossible things before breakfast each day!

But most important of all, if I can add, would be for you to enjoy it!!!

Hey, to be fair it’s all public in the modlog. They have weird geopolitical ideas, but I don’t see a lot of ways it’s influenced the design of the platform.

It’s not though. You not only do not receive a notification, unlike Reddit btw, but you also can’t message the person who did it, also unlike Reddit btw, and on top of that, the modlog simply says that it was done by a “mod”, so you can’t DM them either unless you DM every single mod in the entire community (tbf Reddit does NOT show which mod did something, but in that case you still have the shared modmail so there was no actual need to have it).

Even weirder, I remember when this feature was added: it used to always show the account of the mod, but over time it has become even more authoritian than it used to be. I am saying that Lemmy is somehow even more authoritian than Reddit itself. Instance admins and to a lesser degree mods have tremendous freedoms, whereas the end users not so much. The devs left Reddit, but how Reddit operated still seems very much prominent in their minds, except when they choose to do differently and yes, enormous kudos that there is a modlog, but without notifications of an event or a modmail it still on balance ends up being MORE authoritian than Reddit.

Whereas PieFed offers numerous features aimed at the democratization of moderation, allowing mods to be more hands-off and leave the end-user to decide what they want to see, possibly enlisting the aid of the entire community. e.g. one of the first things PieFed does with a new account is a sign-up wizard asking what their interests are and subscribing to communities based on the answers, and as part of that asking if the user would like to block All, Some, or None of any keywords the user would like, such as “Trump” or “Musk”. This allows mods to have additional options beyond simply remove that content vs. allow it: now, they can more readily allow it knowing that the users that are super tired of seeing it all the time have a means to see less of it, provided by the automated software (which also reduces the burden of manual moderation tasks too).

Sorry this is getting long and you had other questions but I wanted to point out that the pro-democracy stance of PieFed’s democratization of moderation and the pro-authoritarian stance (not from the perspective of an instance admin but to the end-users themselves) is very much baked into the code and a large part of the overall experiences, as it shapes what content is allowed to show up on the respective platforms.

Okay, that does sound dope. How is it implemented? Does it only work if the commenter is on PieFed?

It brings all comments together across all communities, both PieFed and Lemmy - it is one of PieFed’s most popular features! Here is an example showing 9 cross-posts where the comments are all brought together: https://piefed.social/post/1189671 (except I have Lemmy.ml blocked so those comments properly don’t show up for my account:-) - note clicking the horizontal lines shows the community sidebar with explanation and rules for each one.

As you said, it really helps posts to smaller communities maintain traction rather than get ignored by the masses of Lemmings, with that automated software feature allowing Pie-heads to be more connected across the Fediverse.:-)